bottom two - to the felt?

[ArtVandelay]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't just go all in.

No worse hand will call.

Give him some rope and make a weakish 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Parlay Slow]

btw this is a fold

[Blizzardbaum]

[ QUOTE ]
villian is a TAG but seems to be getting pretty sick of me lately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since this info was given by OP as a read, it needs to be considered. There is no elaboration on why this is the case, and maybe some is needed. There are a few hands that would get played this way that beat us. K5, K4 and 44 and 55 (I'm ruling out KK due to the preflop action). 63, 23 and 67 could also be played this way, and I think Villain is even more likely to play an OESD like this if he's got some bad history with Hero. But, with a board of K45, and with Hero holding 54, there are 14 ways Villain could be holding K4, K5, 44 or 55. There are 48 Villain could be holding an OESD with this board. AK would have raised preflop, but KQ, KJ, K10, K9, K8, K7, K6, K3, K2 would all have checked the option and could conceivably be played liked this on the flop. With a K on the flop, there are 108 ways he could have Kx. Lets say he raises with KT+ (I'm considering the read). That's 36 additional hands he could have we beat.

84+ vs 14- is basically my reasoning.

[dlv54]

Thinking that kq/kj, or oest type hands are more likely than the flopped sets (no way he has KK based on pf action; prob. doesnt have 44 or 55 based on my holding) or the better two pair (k4, k5), I reraise to 400. he thinks about 5 seconds and goes all in for my last ~500 - so i am getting 3:1 on my last 500. Hero?

(enough suspense, i call he shows k5 and i can't spike him...)

at the time i played this i thought it was a no brainer play, nice setup hand for him, etc. move on. but now i am rethinking his range for the flop raise in the limped pot and i am afraid i was doing the old: "put him on a hand you can beat and call game"

thoughs? just results-orented thinking?

thanks for the replies.

[Parlay Slow]

two pair vs two pair in a FIVE WAY LIMPED POT is NOT a setup hand!

[dlv54]

[ QUOTE ]
two pair vs two pair in a FIVE WAY LIMPED POT is NOT a setup hand!

[/ QUOTE ]

i am not arguing w/ you. where do i get off it though? just fold to his raise? reraise like i did and then fold to the last 500 getting 3:1? does he ever raise one pair kings here for value? give me more than just its a five way limped pot blah blah blah.

[Parlay Slow]

dlv,

[ QUOTE ]
btw this is a fold

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[AncientPC]

I call the reraise and lead turn, block river. If I get raised I can toss my hand, but I still extract value from draws / single K.

IMO, the problem with either 3-betting flop is now you have a marginal hand in a large pot OOP. Are you going to lead turn? I think that's going to essentially put you all-in.

The problem with calling and then c/c'ing turn is you let draws get away cheap, and let better hands value bet you on the turn. If villain leads turn, you're going to have to c/f the large river bet. If you c/c turn and lead river, you'll only get raised/called by hands you beat.

Or you could avoid all decision making by just pushing the flop, but unless villain's shown propensity to call all-ins with marginal holdings I don't like pushing.

[dlv54]

[ QUOTE ]
dlv,

[ QUOTE ]
btw this is a fold

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

also, how much does the fact that we are not that big ofa favorite to his one-pair king hands weigh into this decision?

thanks again guys...

[Parlay Slow]

dlv,

it weighs heavily in this decision and many other very similar situations that you will face in your poker career