Free Universal Healthcare

[diebitter]

I've been listening to comments about Michael Moore's new film, Sicko, and one criticism this side of the Atlantic is it tries to show UK (and other) Universal Health Care systems as fantastic. They aren't that; often there's long waits for necessary operations, there's disputes about what things are covered at the extreme ends (where care is particularly expensive and verging on cosmetic rather than health, where the person was a heavy smoker and brought it on themselves) etc.

But it isn't bad, to be fair. Emergency services are pretty good. MY son, broke his foot a few months back, we went straight to a walk-in medical centre, he got x-rayed and diagnosed, plastered, and out in less than 2 hours. All free.

He put too much weight on the plaster, and 2 days later we went back, got it redone and he was out again - less than an hour this time. All free.



I wondered what you Americans (and any others) thought about "free" universal healthcare?

[DrewDevil]

No, dear God, no. Please move to politics before I go on life tilt.

"Free Universal ______________" is always a recipe for having crappy ___________ that is not universal and not free.

[4_2_it]

Please define "free". Seems like you are paying high taxes for a service that is mediocre at best.

[jjshabado]

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Please define "free". Seems like you are paying high taxes for a service that is mediocre at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gah! The US already pays more (per capita) for health care then most (I can't quite remember if its all) other countries, including Canada. This is just public, Government money spent. When you take into account the combination of public/private spending its WAY more than many Universal Health Care systems.

There have also been numerous studies (including one just a couple of months ago) that have shown Canada's health care system is just as effective as the US system.

So, its cheaper, fairer, and just as effective.

Edit: This isn't the study I wanted to find (its more of a news article) but I'm still looking.
Article Comparing US and Canada

Edit2: Another comparison

Edit3: (Last Edit, I promise) This references the study that looked at a number of studies and found that health outcomes were basically equal between the two countries.
Wikipedia Article Comparing US and Canada Health Care Systems

[jjshabado]

The whole "Government's are inefficient" argument against health care is [censored] when its arguing for the status quo. After a year and a half of living here in the States, I've seen first hand the inefficient bureaucracy that exists. Referalls on top of Prescriptions, Pre-certification forms, tons of paper work that just exists to give Insurance companies an out to avoid paying for treatments.

It would be extremely difficult for the Government to be more inefficient then the current system. Now you could make the argument that a truly 'free market' system might be more efficient, but thats unlikely to happen anytime soon. (Nor do I want it to happen).

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
The whole "Government's are inefficient" argument

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed that this is as politically loaded a statement as you're ever likely to see get passed off as common sensical or self-evident. It is so telling of an overall belief system, though, that it is usually either applauded or ignored, as I'm about to do, because there's not really room for discussion.

[ChipWrecked]

I don't believe in any right to health care. There certainly wasn't one defined in the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution.

But then I'm such a bastid I think EMTALA should be eliminated also; that opinion built during the hours spent in ER waiting rooms during my wife's difficult pregnancies while [censored] indigent illegal aliens used the ER as their general practitioner's office. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

I love the idea, and so do my friends and relatives in Germany and France. There's always a trade-off, but they view it, as I do, as one of the fundamental things a modern government should do and is capable of doing.

Here in America, being underinsured or even uninsured is extremely common. Having health insurance with limited coverage or that is too expensive to pay for is a poor to non-existent solution. Typically, people in lower income classes very rarely go to the doctor, as they can't afford it. This means that when they do get to a doctor, their conditions tend to be far advanced. This changes them from fairly minor and inexpensive matters to sometimes costly and, despite that, still fatal or crippling matters. As treating someone with an advanced condition for even a few days can be enormously expensive compared to the cost of preventive medicine, regular check ups, and minor medical care, we have a kind of "false savings" here that doesn't really come out in the wash.

And, we have a greater chance by far of families with one less earning parent. In an America whose social mores encourage single-parenthood, this can mean no parent at all, with the resultant social and economic costs.

I predict this thread will be filled with bad behavior too long, though, because healthcare got pinned to Hillary Clinton in the public mind, and is one of those knee-jerk, scream till you're blue in the face, America-does-everything-right issues that there's really no talking about. Politically, it's also dead in the water, like changes in social security or the mortgage tax deduction, because few people want to either admit the real costs or think much about having to pay them, and the people most negatively affected are trivially easy to ignore.

Good luck on the subject. But I suspect we're due for vastly more heat than light.

[katyseagull]

I went back and forth on this issue for a long time. Initially thought it was a bad idea. After all, I was one of the lucky ones so I didn't really need universal health care. And there were a lot of scary stories about mediocre services and long waits associated with Univ. healthcare.

However, now that the news is reporting more and more employers are eliminating health insurance from their benefit packages (seriously) and other employers are severely limiting their coverages I think we will all feel the effects.

Ever know someone who didn't have health insurance? Just devastating to them and their extended family when they get seriously injured or come down with cancer. I know a lot of people without any coverage at all. I worry for them.

[CharlieDontSurf]

free mediocre health care is better than no heath care