To All Parents Worried About Their Kids Doing Drugs

[hmkpoker]

I have no idea which forum this really belongs in, but I'm going with my gut and putting it here.



Despite the "social pressures," and personal availability of drugs, and even my interest and enjoyment of them, I have never had any problems with drugs in my life.

There are two big reasons for this. The first is how I was brought up. My father, who experimented with a lot of things back in the late sixties and early seventies (and hasn't touched an illegal drug in a long time) has always been completely open and honest with me about drugs. He didn't blindly tell me not to do them, or make blanket statments that it would ruin my life (how could he? After all he did, he's now a self-made millionaire). Instead, the drug talks I got in high school were honest, recounting both the bad AND the good. He also managed to completely destroy the rebellious aspect of drugs for me: he said that if I ever wanted to try marijuana, to just tell him and he'd get some and we'd smoke it together; better I got my first THC experience in a safe environment under competant, experienced supervision rather than with the local schwag in some idiot's basement.

Needless to say, this made drugs seem a lot less "cool" to me. I never smoked weed until my third year of college, which brings me to my other reason:

Late in high school, someone introduced me to http://www.erowid.org , possibly the greatest drug resource available to the layperson. While I wasn't interested in doing drugs at that time, I did have a strong academic interest in them (I ended up graduating with my BA in psychology). Over the first two years of college, which I spend in a dorm filled with drug dealing hippies, I learned an awful lot about the history, pharmacology, risks and benefit of a lot of recreational drugs. I was very, very informed, and it could never have come through a biased government telling me outright lies in the D.A.R.E. program.*

My first drug was alcohol; I started drinking at parties when I turned twenty, stopping after 3 or 4 drinks and supplementing it with plenty of water. This was maybe a once a month deal that had no negative consequences.

My second drug was weed. (hey wait, wasn't alcohol the "gateway drug"?) I knew the source, knew the ideal setting (a cozy room with friends, good music, no responsibilities, and lots of water and cookies), smoked quite a few times, but never had any problems as a result.

I've had experience with "hard" drugs (which is easily the dumbest term ever created, I don't see what makes any one drug objectively "harder" than the next) which include mushrooms of various strains, LSD, LSA, salvia, opium, oxycodone, and absinthe and thujone derivatives. Never once did I have any problems with escapism, addiction, bad trips, bad grades, health problems, work problems, money problems, or anything commonly associated with why drugs have to be illegal in the first place.**

I have had some amazing benefits from my drug use, most of which were social/fun, and some of which were truly enlightening and spiritual. I've experienced a range of positive human emotion that some of you will never experience as a result of responsible LSD use, and it helped me be a more extroverted, positive, productive and genuinely happy human being.

I graduated on time with a GPA of 3.1 (yeah, that's not amazing, but it probably had more to do with my wise decision to spend more time playing poker than doing homework). I can safely say that my mind is sharper than it ever was. I work out four times a week. I have a steady job as a waiter at the current time and am working on developing a client base as a Realtor. I have no debt and I've saved up over $30k and I'm currently working toward a downpayment for a house. I'm a very happy person, and I'm proud of myself. I don't think drugs ruined my life, and I can get 'em any time I want...even though currently I don't really do drugs much with the exception of weed every month or so and the occasional, infrequent entheogenic experience. Hell, one day I may grow out of it altogether. But as it stands, here I am, a genuinely responsible drug user, and I know plenty of grad students, PhD students, and successful professionals who meet the criteria, many of whom have done more than I have.

So what I'm trying to say is this: if you want your kids not to have problems with drugs, be honest with them. If you constantly bombard your kid with nonsense that DRUGS ARE BAD THEY WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE YOU'LL LOSE EVERYTHING AND END UP GIVING HAND JOBS ON THE STREET FOR YOUR FIX, coupled with a complete lack of valid information, they're going to figure out for themselves that you're full of [censored] once they get into the real world and find out that drugs are fun.

Secondly, your kids aren't going to be kids forever. They're going to become adults. Adults live in a world of risk, and they get ahead by being able to make good choices. They have to be informed to make good choices. Expose them to good information, and let them learn for themselves. If you want them to become responsible, give them the power to be responsible.

Lastly, a note on drug addiction. Most drugs do not produce physiological dependance (that is, deadly symptoms of immediate withdrawal from high regular usage; the only two well-known ones are strong opiates and alcohol), and are almost always the result of other problems in their life. I know several people who I would say are addicted to marijuana. They can't stop. They need the fun method of escapism because they have other issues that they can't deal with. So if your kid's a drug addict, chances are the addiction isn't the real issue; it's just a symptom of the real disease, and that's what you need to fix.



* My favorite thing that they told me in high school was "If someone is having a bad trip on LSD, call 911 immediately!" Any competant sitter should knock your teeth out if you tried to do anything this horrible to someone.

** The only "bad" drug experience I've ever had came from good ol' 100% legal alcohol. The distant second was phamacist-approved legal heroin, oxycodone.

[fluxrad]

This post is pure projection. You assume what is true for you is true for most. That is not the case.

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Most drugs do not produce physiological dependance (that is, deadly symptoms of immediate withdrawal from high regular usage...

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"deadly symptoms" are not prerequisites for physiological dependence. All you need is physical withdrawl. This is the case with a very large number of substances, including nicotine and caffeine (probably your real gateway drug). Moreover, your post seems to imply that physical dependence is the only "real" type of addiction. I like this passage from Astronomy Online:


The medical community now carefully distinguishes between physical dependence (withdrawal (withdrawal: The act of withdrawing) s) and psychological addiction (or simply addiction). Addiction is now narrowly defined as "uncontrolled, compulsive use despite harm"; if there is no harm to the patient or another party, there is no addiction. The obsolete term physical addiction is deprecated because of its pejorative connotations, especially in modern pain management with opioids where physical dependence is nearly universal but addiction is rare.

Physical dependency on a substance is defined by the appearance of characteristic withdrawal (withdrawal: The act of withdrawing) symptoms when the drug is suddenly discontinued. While opioids, benzodiazepines, barbiturates, alcohol and nicotine are all well known for their ability to induce physical dependence, other drugs share this property that are not considered addictive: cortisone, beta-blockers and most antidepressants are examples. Also, some highly addictive drugs, such as cocaine, induce relatively little physical dependence. So while physical dependency can be a major factor in the psychology of addiction, the primary attribute of an addictive drug is its ability to induce euphoria while causing harm.

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the only two well-known ones are strong opiates and alcohol), and are almost always the result of other problems in their life.

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You mean like genetics?

[hmkpoker]

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This post is pure projection.

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Yep, it's pure personal experience based rhetoric. I'm not going to argue to the contrary as I was trying to make a point with experience rather than empirically-derived theory (I do that every now and then). If anyone can provide a good explanation as to why informed honesty is a bad policy, I'd love to hear it.

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So while physical dependency can be a major factor in the psychology of addiction, the primary attribute of an addictive drug is its ability to induce euphoria ...

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Translation: they're FUN. That's why people do fun things. (the last part of the sentence was omitted because it is a complete non sequitur)

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You mean like genetics?

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Correct. Alcohol dependency correlates with a well-known and well-researched genetic component. There are also some genetic elements that increase the likelihood of behavior likely to result in drug use. It is a factor worthy of serious consideration, but I don't think we should let it inhibit our freedom and responsibility.

[whiskeytown]

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the only two well-known ones are strong opiates and alcohol), and are almost always the result of other problems in their life.

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You mean like genetics?

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I gotta admit - lately I've been thinking and if addictive behavior (and depression) have genetic factors, then I am seriously considering not having kids -

this is a tough [censored] nut to deal with day in and day out for 80 years - given a choice there's a couple times where I would have rather never even had the experience of living. -

and by a couple of times, I mean a couple times that went on for several months. -

but I love it when people bitch about drugs and then turn to other forms of escapism like alcohol and don't realize what hypocrites they're being - gives me a sense of moral superiority about my drug taking [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

RB

[hmkpoker]

dude, alcohol isn't a drug. Why else would they legalize it? Come on.

[fluxrad]

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This post is pure projection.

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Yep, it's pure personal experience based rhetoric. I'm not going to argue to the contrary as I was trying to make a point with experience rather than empirically-derived theory (I do that every now and then). If anyone can provide a good explanation as to why informed honesty is a bad policy, I'd love to hear it.

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I'm fine with your premise, namely that parents should talk to their kids about drug use. But I fear you're preaching to the choir.

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So while physical dependency can be a major factor in the psychology of addiction, the primary attribute of an addictive drug is its ability to induce euphoria ...

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Translation: they're FUN. That's why people do fun things. (the last part of the sentence was omitted because it is a complete non sequitur.

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I believe they were speaking to the components of addiction rather than the components of an addictive substance. It was worded incorrectly, though.

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...but I don't think we should let it inhibit our freedom and responsibility.

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I didn't think it was possible to hijack your own thread...

[hmkpoker]

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But I fear you're preaching to the choir.

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You're probably right. I should have put this in SMP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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believe they were speaking to the components of addiction rather than the components of an addictive substance.

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Totally. This can apply to any fun activity; eating, sex, video games, sports, whatever. I was trying to dispel the notion, though, that there's some magical element specific to drug addiction that makes it somehow different to other addictions.

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I didn't think it was possible to hijack your own thread...

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What is this "hijacking" stuff anyway?

[SheetWise]

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You're probably right. I should have put this in SMP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Actually, the Psychology forum will provide a lot of response.

[SheetWise]

I agree with your dad. I remember when my oldest daughter asked me why people did cocaine. I told her "Because it's an incredibly fun drug -- you don't think people give up their homes, cars, friends, and jobs for a drug that's not fun -- do you?"

[fluxrad]

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Totally. This can apply to any fun activity; eating, sex, video games, sports, whatever. I was trying to dispel the notion, though, that there's some magical element specific to drug addiction that makes it somehow different to other addictions.

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The difference is in scope. I just watched a Frontline on crystal methamphetamine a few nights ago (oddly enough), and one of the things they analyzed was the seratonin level in addict's brains. They then compared the figures to the levels of dopamine released from eating a cheeseburger. The finding was that a single hit of meth equalled something like 30 cheeseburgers. It was an interesting analogy, and this anecdote doesn't really do the bit justice.

But the point is this: You ask why "drugs" should be considered different from over "fun" activities. I think the answer is obvious: because they're drugs. They're not activities designed to influence the body's natural production of chemicals (adrenaline, for example). They're substances taken for the specific purpose of tinkering with human brain chemistry in such a way as to produce euphoric reactions that cannot be replicated by natural activity.


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What is this "hijacking" stuff anyway?

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Hijacking a thread means diverting it from its original purpose. For example, you were responding to my comment about the genetic factor in alcohol addiction

And then, from out of nowhere...

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but I don't think we should let it inhibit our freedom and responsibility.

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This doesn't follow. What you're trying to do here is turn the topic towards legality. Unless you're trying to make some spiritual assertion for alcoholics that I'm not getting.