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  #1  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:04 AM
fov fov is offline
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Default two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

My image is probably tight but I did show some bluffs that session (i don't bluff too often). other players probably think im a scared money because i was really nervous and constantly shaking my hands when betting in a big pot (i was really cold lol).
These two hands happened about 10 days ago within 10 minutes apart...please tell me what you all think:

10/20
1st hand: I have 6.5K villain (he seems taggy) covers.
I opened to 100 UTG+1 with 99 and everyone folds to villain on the button who raised to 280. Blinds folded and i called, headsup to the flop.
Flop:669 with two spades. I donked out 400 and he instantly raised me to 1100. i called.
Turn: 10r, i checked and hoped to cr him all in. he checked.
River: 9r. (what to do??) I bet 2000 he folded after tanking for two minutes).

This second hand happened about 5 minutes later, different villain(i think he's pretty good, made some thin v-bets on the river during that session).
I have 8k villain barely covers.
i opened to 140 after 2 on the cutoff with AKh. Big blind repops to 440, rest folds. headsup to the flop.
flop:3h7hJx
Big blind led for 760 and i called (anyone raises?)
turn:Ax
big blind checked quickly and i checked back quickly. (anyone bets here?)
river:4x
big blind checked quickly and i bet 2000, bb thinks for 30 seconds and pushed all in. (vomit). what to do?????

any advise would help.
Thanks for reading.
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:44 AM
Paul Thomson Paul Thomson is offline
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Location: donking it up NL200
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Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

i don't play these levels so take it fwiw.

Hand 1: looks good. i think his calling range on the river is bigger than his betting range.

I think ur bet size on the river is good also. i don't think a small bet induces a raise or gets called more either.

Hand 2:
Flop: there might be merit in raising. I think he'll fold QQ alot this deep. And I don't think he'll push KK or AA. However, if u do get shoved on that kinda sucks. At the same time, the stack sizes will be decent for a turn push if u raise the flop and am called, but are Villain's ever folding after they call a raise on the flop?

TURN: I'd check behind here also. I don't see any good reason to bet.

RIVER: Good value bet. But Id fold to the raise, you only beat a bluff.
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:07 AM
Ansky Ansky is offline
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Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

hand 1 you HAVE to just shove that flop... from what I hear about the commerce, you will get fist pump called by like every valueraising hand in his range.

Hand 2 looks like a call... I don't know why, just seems like he will be bluffing enough for sure.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:36 AM
limon limon is offline
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Location: los angeles
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Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

[ QUOTE ]
My image is probably tight but I did show some bluffs that session (i don't bluff too often). other players probably think im a scared money because i was really nervous and constantly shaking my hands when betting in a big pot (i was really cold lol).
These two hands happened about 10 days ago within 10 minutes apart...please tell me what you all think:

10/20
1st hand: I have 6.5K villain (he seems taggy) covers.
I opened to 100 UTG+1 with 99 and everyone folds to villain on the button who raised to 280. Blinds folded and i called, headsup to the flop.
Flop:669 with two spades. I donked out 400 and he instantly raised me to 1100. i called.
Turn: 10r, i checked and hoped to cr him all in. he checked.
River: 9r. (what to do??) I bet 2000 he folded after tanking for two minutes).

This second hand happened about 5 minutes later, different villain(i think he's pretty good, made some thin v-bets on the river during that session).
I have 8k villain barely covers.
i opened to 140 after 2 on the cutoff with AKh. Big blind repops to 440, rest folds. headsup to the flop.
flop:3h7hJx
Big blind led for 760 and i called (anyone raises?)
turn:Ax
big blind checked quickly and i checked back quickly. (anyone bets here?)
river:4x
big blind checked quickly and i bet 2000, bb thinks for 30 seconds and pushed all in. (vomit). what to do?????

any advise would help.
Thanks for reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

hand 1 you should have donk'd again on the turn, like 900.

hand 2 do you have 2 overs and the flush draw? i raise flop here. as played you have as good of situation as any to make a hero call on river.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:48 AM
fov fov is offline
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Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

PT: Once i hit that A i was trying to do a pot control...didn't work after all...haha. I think there is a decent chance he would fold if i raise the flop/push the turn...o well...

Ansky: hand 1)commerce people are very cally...but this villain doesnt look like he will call a 300BB donk lead on the flop with even AA in this spot. maybe he would...o well
hand

Limon: I should've donked more on the flop. and for hand 2...i did call fairly quickly. i will post the result later.

Thanks for the replies!
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2007, 05:38 AM
bamboo6386 bamboo6386 is offline
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Posts: 24
Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

The reason why Commerce is so great is because there are so many games and players playing poker there. So of course you will hear stuff about how crazy the action is there. But there are a lot of regulars who are nitty as hell. especially the older guys.


Hand 1) given the description of the opponent I like donking the turn. Some guys who are tight hate to fold aces though, Ansky's argument should be considered.

Hand 2)I don't like raising on the flop here because you guys are so deep and your implied odds are so good. and if he reraises you probly have to fold if the guy is really tight pf and reraises seldom OOP.

Two arguments for raising would be
1) if the player reraises light in that spot, but usually in live games his hand is jj or better a lot of the time here.

2) he respects your raises on this flop too much and will fold AA or KK often enough here, which I doubt.

That river play is sooo sick. I don't know what I would do looks like such a good spot to make a hero call, but that really depends on one thing do you think this guy is capable of making a move like that on the river? a lot of deep stackers will bluff and semibluff but won't risk all there chips on a pure bluff. but god I don't know what to put him on. he's probly bluffing often enough to justify a call.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2007, 07:20 AM
PokerFink PokerFink is offline
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Posts: 7,209
Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

Hand 1: Play this a lot faster. You raised UTG+1, you have a tight image and it's the commerce. He's probably going to put you on JJ/QQ/KK, and it's plenty common to see all the money get in there with those hands against AA on that board. Just make a smallish re-raise and keep betting till all the money is in there. Don't get fancy.

Hand 2: I like your line, and you should probably fold the river. Live players don't do huge river check/raise bluffs that much.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:40 PM
fov fov is offline
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Posts: 11
Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

hand one i put him on QQ+ for sure...possibly AK but most likely QQ KK AA. I agree that i should donk more on the flop and more on the turn, but i doubt he's calling my turn bet anyways with his holdings, hes hella nitty but hes definitely a thinking player.

Hand2 I am just completely lost...i couldnt put him on a hand. for those who plays in commerce...hes a short dark looking indian guy...about 28 years old or so. he is good, not sure if he is a regular though, and he's definitely capable of bluffing this river here( i think ). Thanks for the analysis, hope there is more discussion and i will post the result.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:04 PM
PrimogenitoX PrimogenitoX is offline
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Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 732
Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

Pls pls pls either bet3bet flop in hand 1 or I even think checkraising semi big is really really good. Just think of what your hand looks like in his eyes...966...checkraise big looks like a scared QQ-TT "trying to find out where you are at" or even just KK...nobody would ever checkraise big with 99 there...you will double through so so easily..even by a nit...nines full simply makes no sense if you take that line...A small 3bet with the line you took accomplishes the very same thought process in villain's mind...just contemplate for like 30-45 seconds and make it $2500...the problem with just smoothcalling the reraise vs the villain you described is that since you assume he is not a retard then most people who arent retarded will simply check turn behind for pot control as evidenced
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:08 AM
LAgambol LAgambol is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 129
Default Re: two very deep live hands check @ commerce , need help*

Hand 1: i like a 3bet on the flop, his line screams AA and your hand appears more like KK, QQ, or JJ rather than 99

Hand 2: i posted a hand almost exactly like this awhile ago. i think your good here like 60% of the time, i cant see him checking the turn and river with a monster, but its really player dependent.

is the indian guy more like 38+? was he wearing an old style hat?
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