NL10 - I played like a man and a girl all in the same hand (river 2pr)

[DawnToDusk]

<font color="blue">The player is very bad and fishy. Has stats of 72/16/.7 over 45 hands and has called PF raises with hands like 89o that were 30+BB. He has also been going to showdown with very marginal hands often.</font>

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $9.60
CO: $14.10
Hero: $10.75
SB: $10.85
BB: $15.15

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.4</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.85, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $0.4</font>, BB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1.65, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $0.1</font>, Hero calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($1.85, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $1.85</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $5.55

<font color="blue">I have noticed that he will fold to CBets on the flop when a lot of broadway hits. I CBet this flop because the KQ hit and I think it will cause to fold pretty much everything except spades and weak K or Q. With that being said I make a pair on the turn and he min bets it. <font color="red">What are you guys doing on the turn? I know he isn't strong but think he will come along with almost anything. Just call because of the pot odds?</font> On the river I make two pair on a wet board and he throughs out a large pot sized river bet. <font color="red">On the river you just flat call this? How else do you play this hand?</font></font>

[atlwindsurf]

Newb here, so bear with me.

First of all, I don't raise alot of connectors like 89o against players like this. They are gonna call anyway and continue with pretty much anything. The normal routine of raise pf and cbet to take down the pot doesn't work with these guys so I tend to play a lot tighter against them.

As played, I'd call the river bet. You hit your non-spade 9, which is what you called the donk turn bet for. Don't think there's any value for raising though. Again, I tend to play weaker against these people since they dont freaking fold anyway.

[DawnToDusk]

I played this hand because 1)there is a slight chance that CBet takes down a pot against this opponent on flops similar to these, so when I do raise and CBet I make more money, as opposed to just limping in and then taking the pot when checked to me. I also played it 2)because our villian has been playing very marginal hands to the river. Albeit my hand isn't great either I'm confident in my reads at this table for the most part and think I can take my hand to Valuetown when needed.

The PF raise in my mind is +EV but is probably thin. I'm learning to open my game up a lil and learn how to take more pots PF with 3bets and on the flop. I find that I leave some pots out in the open for people to improve because I played the PF fairly safely and the flop fairly "hit or miss" like lately. So far it has improved my overall profit but has got me into some interesting spots. But practice makes perfect. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Fisherman23]

[ QUOTE ]


my hand isn't great either

I think I can take my hand to Valuetown when needed.

The PF raise in my mind is +EV but is probably thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should reread the previous comment. Playing any hand against this type of opponent is "probably +EV" but playing top hands and taking Villian to said Valuetown is more +EV because you can just b,b,b against these guys and get paid rather than try to take down a small pot in an iffy situation.

I like the fact that you are thinking about 3bets for stealing, although they don't really apply to 10NL. It's hard to bluff the many stations down there, and you might make some plays that are downright spewy. I think that if you stay the course and play that ABC TAG poker down there you will see less variance in your play while still yielding a similar win rate.

[vixticator]

Never bet the flop. Huge station, maybe semi maniac here. Don't try to push them out of pots with air. Wait for a hand and value bet them. Fold every street to a bet including river (river is actually close, calling isn't spew I think you are probably behind though).

edit: Reading replies, I think raising PF is good. Don't c-bet though.

[DawnToDusk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


my hand isn't great either

I think I can take my hand to Valuetown when needed.

The PF raise in my mind is +EV but is probably thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should reread the previous comment. Playing any hand against this type of opponent is "probably +EV" but playing top hands and taking Villian to said Valuetown is more +EV because you can just b,b,b against these guys and get paid rather than try to take down a small pot in an iffy situation.

I like the fact that you are thinking about 3bets for stealing, although they don't really apply to 10NL. It's hard to bluff the many stations down there, and you might make some plays that are downright spewy. I think that if you stay the course and play that ABC TAG poker down there you will see less variance in your play while still yielding a similar win rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I 100% with your statements. It is probably more +EV to just play solid hands against this vill. Part of the reason I am playing like this, is not to play marginal hands in position against these opponents when I think I can make good plays and take them to valuetown. Its when I move up limits I want to be more aggressive PF and use my superior (to those that are at my table) hand reading skills to take smaller pots away on the flop and turn as well. In other words I have been pretty noncreative lately and I moved down levels to practice this. Sometimes Ive been running 30/20 and its been working nicely. Sometimes I do get into spots like these that makes my decision making more difficult from the way I have been playing. But I hope to incorporate this style of play back into my regular game when I move back up and thought I would practice down at these limits.

But as for the river what do you think? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DawnToDusk]

Ya. I thought I was behind too. I called because of the 2-to-1 odds on my money. I didn't think I beat a lot but I thought there might be some weak K and Q in his range that would make calling more justifiable.

Edit - Oh. And what made you change your mind on the PF raise? I was just curious. Want to get some more perspective on raising these players with these hands. Probably not the best but I think I can get to river enough to VB.

[vixticator]

If this player were passive I'm inclined to loosen up OTB more than usual for a raise, aggro maniac not so much (I'd consider open limping the button tbh against them which I otherwise never do just because they will raise and stack off with air a lot). Especially if they fold to cbets or turn bets, just hammer away. On favorable flops. This one is being peeled to the river by so many hands it's just not worth continuing.