Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Small Stakes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:18 PM
AaronOC AaronOC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 822
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

i shove here
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:19 PM
traz traz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sleeping on stacks
Posts: 19,775
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

[ QUOTE ]
i think i shove as well with the dead money, we might not get a ton of action if we call and hit anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

we might get more action though, so it works both ways.

FWIW I spoke to sightless on aim before he posted this hand and I said I really liked a call.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:20 PM
Phytopath Phytopath is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 782
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

I have no doubt that shoving is definately +EV, but calling with such a monster might actually be better.

Obviously if you hit a K on the turn you will be free-rolling against maybe 2-3 here, or a flush could come up against a smaller flush. I dunno just babbling, have no idea which is better actually. I would probably shove, just because I know doing so is very profitable...just not sure if it is the most profitable.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:50 PM
KLJ KLJ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ucla
Posts: 2,890
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

this seems like a call
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:02 PM
Zen_Approach Zen_Approach is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 18
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

[ QUOTE ]


Imo - Shove>Call> Fold >Min-Raising

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

I guess I like to gamble for a huge pot in this spot. I think a smallish raise (maybe to 40ish) will look very strong here. A worse draw might shove given how much is now in the pot. I think a shove shuts down the action here, and we are a decent favourite over anything other than flopped straight.

Then again calling and drawing isn't terrible, nor is an all-in. It is possible that a lot of our outs are held by our opponents.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:10 PM
Xanta Xanta is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 1,937
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

[ QUOTE ]
I actually kinda, really like call

[/ QUOTE ]
If I can try to explain what carrotsnake is thinking, we have 2 very good nut draws. In a pot this multiway, a whole lot of our implied odds come from doodz with non nut draws that will get it in when we hit the turn (lower spades in particular) While shoving is certainly +EV with all the dead money in the pot, you're never getting called by a worse draw and you're often flipping-ish when you get called. Just flatting the flop allows you to realize your implied odds.

Also, if we just call this flop and hit a spade, king or 8 on the turn I think that I like donking more than check/raising. Anyone else?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:12 PM
feelixthegreek feelixthegreek is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Ward
Posts: 590
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

I hear the arguments for a push, but how much fold equity do we really have against all these callers?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:13 PM
fees fees is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Whats my motivation? LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Posts: 4,162
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

yeah ur gonna get called here by something that beats u so dont shove
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:16 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I actually kinda, really like call

[/ QUOTE ]
If I can try to explain what carrotsnake is thinking, we have 2 very good nut draws. In a pot this multiway, a whole lot of our implied odds come from doodz with non nut draws that will get it in when we hit the turn (lower spades in particular) While shoving is certainly +EV with all the dead money in the pot, you're never getting called by a worse draw and you're often flipping-ish when you get called. Just flatting the flop allows you to realize your implied odds.

Also, if we just call this flop and hit a spade, king or 8 on the turn I think that I like donking more than check/raising. Anyone else?

[/ QUOTE ]


If there is another spade draw then that leaves little spade outs. If the turn pairs the board we're pretty much [censored] to continue.

What makes you think another fd is folding if you push anyway?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:20 PM
Hail Eris Hail Eris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 663
Default Re: whats better to call or shove this flop

The fact that so many people are interested in this flop reduces the EV of shoving, since many of our outs are likely to be out in the other players' hands.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.