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  #11  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:59 PM
Fulzgold Fulzgold is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone ever check the dry flop for pot control?

Also, someone mentioned re-raising the flop and folding...? How do we put in > 1/2 our stack and then fold? And actually a meaningful raise is going to be at least to $300, leaving me with $200 behind... seems awkward to put in that ratio and fold.

If I block the turn, how much am I blocking with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his range is still undefined by his actions. If u 3 bet him on flop to $220 or so, he knows you have a monster and can't shove without a set or a ballsy straight draw (if so, nh). might be crazy but i reckon you can fold to a shove because he doesnt play A9 or JJ like this on the flop. Either that or fold to his flop raise if you don't like the smell of things but it's not like this is Dan Harrington or some nit raising you. I dont see how else OOP you can find out the strength of this type of players hand without 3 betting him with a strong favorite over his range. Either that or 3bet-shove the flop, but that seems ridiculous at 250bb deep. If you feel pot committed with 3 bet then go broke or fold on flop. mr. inbetween is not a great option IMO.

turn blocker i would try like $130 into a pot of around $240ish then see how he reacts. Same price as 3betting him on flop but more information gained earlier IMO plus you fold out the 9's/str8 draws that want to draw in position.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:17 PM
feelixthegreek feelixthegreek is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

The same size bet on the turn smells of a nine. The flop raise was to get rid of you with TP, but the turn bet is to keep you around.

I think I'd have played the flop the same way. Since you're OOP, he seems like a player you'd get more value from by check-calling reasonable bets.
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  #13  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:59 PM
ryang ryang is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

just river an ace and say wut up dawg
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  #14  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:10 PM
Check_The_Nuts Check_The_Nuts is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

turn sucks because your deep. In your description you didn't address the key part of how villian plays. Does he tend to call down with his TPNK hands or does he raise and play for stacks, even if his kicker is weak?

I would only ever 3bet the flop for value. As in if I 3bet I wouldn't even think of folding when/if he pushes. If he doesn't raise very often on the flop I like flat calling and checking the turn.

The fact the 9 came is bad. But to say you have to 3bet the flop is results oriented that the 9 paired. Thats basically the worst card in the deck for your hand.
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  #15  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:05 PM
DonkeyDonk DonkeyDonk is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

Since it's a live game, I think your PFR was too small. Assuming you're playing with $5 chips, you can put out at least 3 or 4 chips as a raise, especially with 2 limpers ahead (who probably called with a single $5 chip, making it easier to toss in a few more). This should almost guarantee you position after the flop.

So say you make it $20 to go and get one caller (yes, I know everyone could fold, but compare winning a small pot to the position you were put in). Now the pot is bigger than the one you had, and you presumably have position over one player. Now you're in a much easier scenario and you can do pot-control since you have position.

But say you raised to $20 and the same scenario played out pre-flop (not at all out of the question in a live game). The pot at the flop is $60 and you bet $50. Now the button has to raise to $150 if he thinks you have AK. It's unlikely he has KK-QQ as he probably would have reraised PF. You're behind 99 and 55 (though unlikely to call $20 PF) but ahead of JJ, TT, 88, 77 and top pair. Since you're ahead of so much in his range and behind so little, I think it's easier for you now to 3bet since the pot's gotten big enough compared to your stack.

As the hand played out however, I think it has to be fold on the flop. If he really has trouble getting away from TP, then the 9 pairing on the turn is a big concern. 99, 55 and 44 are also well within his range given the small PFR, and I doubt he has KK-JJ. TT and 88 are possible, but I think draws are out. So it looks now like you're behind his range and should fold since your stack is still healthy.

I'm still a novice though, so keep that in mind...
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  #16  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:35 PM
Waingro Waingro is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

[ QUOTE ]
turn sucks because your deep. In your description you didn't address the key part of how villian plays. Does he tend to call down with his TPNK hands or does he raise and play for stacks, even if his kicker is weak?

I would only ever 3bet the flop for value. As in if I 3bet I wouldn't even think of folding when/if he pushes. If he doesn't raise very often on the flop I like flat calling and checking the turn.

The fact the 9 came is bad. But to say you have to 3bet the flop is results oriented that the 9 paired. Thats basically the worst card in the deck for your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with all three points. Is he going to raise the flop this deep with monsters, draws and air or is he playing like every other aggrodonk who turns his marginal made hands into bluffs. If you think his range on the flop includes top pair and TT and stuff I like a 3bet/call push. If his range is monsters and air I like a call/reevaluate and in that case that 9 is actually a good card for you.
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  #17  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:31 AM
Carte Blanche Carte Blanche is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

Id go into the station mode after his flop raise. Unless hes bad a flop push will only fold out worse hands. He might think his PP is still good or 54 just got counterfeited and hes trying to take the pot. The only hands I can see that beat you is a flopped set, unless he decided to raise with T9 or something like that which is possible but not that likely. Problem is your hand is pretty much face up so it comes down to if hes smart enough to realize it.

Vs an unknown I would call the turn and call a decent size river bet. If he pushes Id puke and steal his cards.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:34 AM
stu-unger stu-unger is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

i like 3 bet to like 350 and call a shove. i 3 bet because i dont think he raises the flop with a set or a bluff. i think we are ahead and want to get all the money in before any scare cards come...



edited cuz i misread the op
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:36 AM
Carte Blanche Carte Blanche is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

Why would you 3bet this flop? Theres hardly any draws and he folds alot of worse hands he might bet turn with.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:48 AM
orange orange is offline
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Default Re: Live $1/$2 game, tricky AA, 250BB deep...

don't 3-bet the flop unless you are 100% sure you want to get it in. i dont mind your line thus far. would villan raise the flop with any 9? gotta ask yourself that, its the most key Q in this hand. is he more aggro or passive with these more marginal hands? i dont mind calling and checking the river. depends i guess.
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