AQo faces EP raise deep.

registrar · #1 02-13-2007, 02:34 PM

$25kg $50+5. Down to four tables. I've been at the table for an orbit or so and done nothing. Villain has been somewhat active and raised the previous hand, taking the blinds.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1000/t2000
(Ante: t100)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t97475
UTG+1: t30608
MP1: t115392
MP2: t27215
Hero: t22782
Button: t40534
SB: t47588
BB: t23270

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t6000, 2 folds, Hero

NoahSD · #2 02-13-2007, 02:36 PM

Shove. He's been "somewhat active" and you've got a little FE and AQ.

tedtodd · #3 02-13-2007, 02:38 PM

You're a hair over 10BB's and your M is about 5- I think it's a push.

aplunk · #4 02-13-2007, 02:41 PM

this is similar - 1st hand at final table of a 20/180

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t400/t800
(Ante: t50)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t40429
UTG+1: t50344
hero: t28590
MP2: t33774
MP3: t46734
CO: t16918
Button: t17015
SB: t27121
BB: t9075

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t2400.
hero ???

yr stacks are shorter i think so prolly push or fold - i push

i chose to call with mine and got in a right mess

dneedle1 · #5 02-13-2007, 02:42 PM

Its a push. HOH III has a problem VERY similar to this. I don't have the book in front of me, but the problem is there. The hero there has AQ in mp, and there is an utg raise, and Dan runs the math and concludes it is an easy push. Now the M was lower than 5 in the problem, and that matters, but I think you end up the same place here, even without any read.

registrar · #6 02-13-2007, 02:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shove. He's been "somewhat active" and you've got a little FE and AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've given this quite a lot of thought for the past few days. What does villain ever raise fold here, nowadays? Does villain ever raise call a worse hand? I mean, I shoved, because that's what we do with this stack, these blinds and with this hand. But that seems pretty 2006 now. I'm not so sure it's profitable any more.

NoahSD · #7 02-13-2007, 02:50 PM

A random who's being a bit active deep in a tourney will raise/fold here at least some of the time. Some of them fold tons of crap here.

More importantly, AJ's clearly in his range, and he's probably not folding that, which means you're at worst only a slight dog to his calling range. Throw in some pot odds and some FE, and this is a push.

Shes92 · #8 02-13-2007, 02:55 PM

Shove, this is a strong hand against a loosish apponent. I think you definitley have fold equity. Hes second to act on a 8 handed table (~same as 1st to act on 7 handed). If the table were 10 handed I would be assume he hand a stronger hand but here I think its possible villain has foldable hands such as 22-66, KQs, AT, AJ.Im not saying he would fold these hands but Im just saying that I think the villains range is pretty wide and your TAG image may help him fold. Theres also about 4k of dead money which gets you pretty close to the right pot odds in the case that youre behind a PP.

registrar · #9 02-14-2007, 08:30 AM

Someone did some stoving for me on this:

113,012,064 games 0.031 secs 3,645,550,451 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.037% 36.75% 07.29% 41526917 8239933.00 { AcQd }
Hand 1: 55.963% 48.67% 07.29% 55005281 8239933.00 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AQo+, KQo }

Now, this is the raise-calling hands. Equity is not great and, besides, my contention is that KQ and possibly AJs are not calling here.

Having reviewed the whole hand history, villain was not especially active. He had come to the table with a big stack and this had been wiped but his play in that hand was reasonable.

I don't/didn't think calling was an option.

My feeling remains that while we take this pot down sometimes pre-flop, if we get called we are never faced with a hand that we dominate.

I didn't like pushing here. I did because received wisdom is that it is correct to do so and I think that used to be true on Stars and remains true on Crypto. However, I don't think this looks I'm restealing light. I'd given up all my blinds and not opended at all since villain had been at the table and here I am pushing over an EP raise. I would suggest that I am always a dog of called. So, is pushing still correct for all the times that I suck out or villain folds?

stokken · #10 02-14-2007, 09:00 AM

I do believe you can add a few more hands to his range increasing the FE, and I would push here 24/7 with this stack

Stokken