5/10 - 10 handed - Q3s in BB against loose player and PFR - River Play

[RED_RAIN]

10 Handed 5/10 Limit

I am in BB.

SB is calling every hand preflop for whatever amount of bets, will often bet if he has anything and often calls flop and turn with nothing. On the river he will bet if he hits bottom pair or was checked to with any pair.

PFR seems normal nothing great or horrible.

Folded around to CO who raises. Folded to SB who as usual cold calls. I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, I check, PFR checks.

Turn comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, I check, PFR checks.

River comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB bets, you ?

And for what reason. Regardless of your reasoning what you do you put CO on and what action do you want him to take in response to yours.

[DeuceKicker]

... call because it's against my religion to fold when I have 2nd pair and the Ace checked through twice.

However, I'd put CO on a very wide range consisting of KQs all the way down to KQ.

I want CO to be so excited turning over his hand that he flings his cards off the table and onto the floor, killing his hand, because that's the only way I can win

[mrcunningham]

I would call here and fold if the CO raises. You have to call as you likely have top pair with a loose and reasonably aggressive SB betting after checked flop and turn. I would not raise as the SB might have a Q, too and if so, almost certainly with a better kicker. Worse yet, a Q with better kicker would not be surprising for the CO. The CO who seems probably straightforward raised preflop but checked both turn and river, suggesting he does not have any A, nor KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99 as one would have thought he would have bet any of these before the river, and he didn't. Would he have raised 88, 77, 66, you haven't given us enough of a read, but most live low limit players wouldn't even when opening from the cutoff. That leaves KQ, JQ, and maybe JTs as possible raising hands, but for an average live player it would skew heavily toward KQ. So I'd be afraid of the CO raising you, but don't think you can fold to the SB bet. Raising the SB is probably spewing as it will get raised by better hands and worse hands will fold. Do I make sense?

[chesspain]

I'm probably folding this PF.

[Allday Everyday]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably folding this PF.

[/ QUOTE ]
I generally fold this in this kind of situation too, but don't the LHE guns say that any two suited is generally profitable from BB closing the action with a single open raiser, and a single caller? Or is that when the SB folds (giving us a half a small bet as dead money)? Anyway, here we aren't facing a genuine strong hand EP or MP raise, its a steal raise from LP, and a call from the calling station SB. Also, the description of SB's postflop play makes me want to get in there and play postflop with this. So I would call preflop.

As for the river, I am call-folding. With the PF raise, I think the pot is big enough for us to be good often enough to beat these two guys.

I guess we could raise to get C/O off a better queen given the pot size. I wonder if we could get him off KK. And on the face of it I guess C/O seems quite likely to hold a queen, but there are only two left in the deck, and I think he usually has something else. Just calling might get us an overcall from JJ or something worse I guess.

Yeah, I definately think it's a weird play from C/O to not bet flop or turn given that he is not terrible. I'll never get the reasoning no matter what he holds. I put him on a PP.

[jesse8888]

I fold this pf. It's not worth the aggravation. Given your read I guess you can call the river, but seriously, you're only getting 4:1 with a player left to act behind you. Folding can't be a huge mistake and I'd never raise. The two most important points to me are:

1. Given your read of SB, it really appears that he has a Q. If he has a Q, it is better than your nut low queen.

2. There are not many hands that the CO could pass up the chance to bet on the turn here. Do you have any idea what his raising requirements would be from that position? I'd certainly think he could open with KJ, KT, QJ, QT and JT as well, and you're beating all those.

So all in all, I chuck in a call.

[One Outer]

I wouldn't worry too much about CO here. I think if he had nothing he would have c-bet the flop most of the time, right? I'm putting him on a pair too, and probably smaller than TT; I think anything TT or bigger would have bet the flop, too.

That said call, and I suppose fold to a raise.

[bernie]

You could bet the flop to try to get it HU with SB. If called by the CO, you're pretty much done with the hand.

Bet the turn. Don't check this for a 2nd street. In fact I'd bet this as if I missed betting it on the flop.(missed c/r) I think if you're checking this turn here, you probably should've folded preflop.

If SB would've bet the turn with any pair, but instead checked, he may have hit his Q and has you outkicked.

You want CO to fold if you call. If he calls, you're likely beat at least by him. A raise would look odd so I'm not sure that would get him out even though the pot is small.

b

[RED_RAIN]

bernie,

I'm lost on your thinking on nearly every street. What do we get by getting HUs on flop and why would we bet into the PFR w/Q high? Same thing on the turn, what is he folding? Describing the SB the SB will call the turn and we want to go to the river with Q high?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I generally fold this in this kind of situation too, but don't the LHE guns say that any two suited is generally profitable from BB closing the action with a single open raiser, and a single caller?

[/ QUOTE ]

No...and I can't imagine that many good players would want to play a hand like 84s/Q3s/T5s/J2s etc. after a TAG steal raise and a fishy SB coldcall. In fact, I would want more, rather than fewer, callers when playing speculative hands OOP.

Furthermore, this starting hand is especially meh because you have virtually no chance to win by making a pair with your crappy kicker.