blind battle against a LAG/TAG? (5/10)

jt1 · #1 09-08-2006, 01:45 AM

Villain is 30/24/1.9. He folds only 25% of raises in the bb and steals 40% of the time. Here are my exact notes:

cold caps out of the bb against button open raiser and sb 3-bettor w/ TJo and 9Js then bets flop and turn when an A & Q spike and check/calls river when a 9 hit

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (6.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 6.20 BB

Leader · #2 09-08-2006, 02:04 AM

It makes a kind of weird sense. I never play it this way though.

revoluteme · #3 09-08-2006, 02:18 AM

On the turn you are are a 58-41 dog to a random hand, which it seems like he could almost have, and by the river you are 2-1 so the check is almost certainly best given his ability to call on the river with mediocre holdings, although this is considerably different than the hand he did make that call in.
overall it seems to be an ok play to get a showdown for the least possibly while still giving you a chance to win without one, but expect to lose more often than not after the call on the turn.
now, what would you have done on an 8 (not diamond we'll say) river?

jt1 · #4 09-08-2006, 02:20 AM

I posted it because I don't know how to play HU against LAG's or ultra aggro TAG's in situations where 1) villain knows it's less likely I have an overpair & 2) the board sucks for most of my hand range.

Leader · #5 09-08-2006, 02:22 AM

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I posted it because I don't know how to play HU against LAG's or ultra aggro TAG's in situations where 1) villain knows it's less likely I have an overpair & 2) the board sucks for most of my hand range.

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If he c/r the flop, calldown. If you're uncomfortable betting the turn after the flop goes c/c, check and induce a bluff.

jt1 · #6 09-08-2006, 02:22 AM

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now, what would you have done on an 8 (not diamond we'll say) river?

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I'd have bet any 8 or at least I hope so.

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58-41 dog to a random hand

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Poker stove?

milesdyson · #7 09-08-2006, 02:22 AM

im pretty sure the typical response to the flop check behind is to

a) check raise or bet intending to 3-bet good hands
b) check fold fearing AA or top set

it just doesnt really have a good purpose

i think you'll win more betting and calling down a raise unimproved than you are to win by checking and calling twice. those turn bets just aren't bluffs very often at all - unless you're running really bad and he's paying attention.

jt1 · #8 09-08-2006, 02:27 AM

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it just doesnt really have a good purpose

i think you'll win more betting and calling down a raise unimproved than you are to win by checking and calling twice. those turn bets just aren't bluffs very often at all - unless you're running really bad and he's paying attention.

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That's pretty interesting. But given your theory, I disagree with your conclusion. If the flop check behind does produce this result then it seems like you would suggest to do the check behind and bet the turn if checked to and fold if bet into.

milesdyson · #9 09-08-2006, 02:30 AM

i think you should bet the flop...

all i said in the other post was i dont expect your 2 bb to be better spent than the 3 bb you would spend betting and calling down a flop check raise on a flop where you can totally expect some retardo fps from some players. obviously reads help to determine the bestest line after you get check raised on the flop, but i really dont care about getting check raised there if the guy is decent and aggressive.

jt1 · #10 09-08-2006, 02:37 AM

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but i really dont care about getting check raised there if the guy is decent and aggressive.

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You mean you call down confident that it's +Ev?