M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Good job giving away information that you managed to get other people to tell you.

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none of the stuff presented here is stuff people told me other than VanVeen's original quoted post. You know that the ss'ers don't share anything. I put together the hand range charts on my own. I pieced together the more than 2-street game and the 2-street all-in moves on on my own by datamining. I don't think that is the same as anyone telling me anything. Also, it isn't hard to datamine and see players open-pushing the SB with some curious hands. So, ummm....yeah as far as anyone "telling" me anything.

And guess what, the games haven't died. Very little has changed.

$$$$ is a false idol anyway (I know that's an unpopular opinion around here, but most of us live in the biggest period of luxury in human history) ... there are many things that one can do for $$$$. Part of the reason I pursued poker is the intellectual challenge it represents. What can be more satisfying than 'teasing out' the simple strategy that a handful of players are doing to consistently win small amounts of $$$$ in a game known for its complexity?


ty though
it's clear there are still a few things that I am missing from your post. I will continue to investigate and datamine you and the other successful shortstackers.

Plus, is it any surprise I gave the info away? Before I was PM'ed back in March or April, I believe my lasts posts on the subject of shortstacking was that it needed to be eliminated and sites should goto a 40 min buyin. Is anyone surprised that I later 'gave away' what I knew?

Since I can now make my modest, happy living playing 24 tables of fullstack with little stress, I'm fine giving this info away. Stress is really a killer.

We each choose what we want to prioritize in life. I think I just put the intellectual pursuit of the game a little higher. It seems to me that nearly every strategy post in the history of 2p2 would be a mistake according to your standards.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Link to the thred MT2R refers to in setting a hand range for 6Max

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

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ty...that is the thread
ignore punter11235's first post unless you want a NIT's opening range, which is sometimes helpful to have

BigJim and AZK give really good ranges

one can find similar threads for fullring

Though BigJIm and AZK differ, the hand ranges to steal verse their range are nearly identical. The only differences will be a hand or two that are near zero EV, so not a big deal in the long run.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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many, many, many reasons
***with 24 tables, I now have the same earn with little grief playing full that I did shorting--same point on risk v reward v challenge graph

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Hmmmm

Are you not shorting anymore because you can play 24 tables full but not 24 tables as a shortie?

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yeah...it was really the switch to 24 tabling on one site that made me far less dependent on shortstacking for the little poker I play--thus, no need to protect my bucket and incentive to give it away

it's ridiculously tough to rathole and table hop over 15 tables

my hourly playing fullstack increased without the stress level increasing....I really don't handle downswings well and stress is one of the #1 killers in our society, so I play way overrolled at very modest limits.

[CalledDownLight]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good job giving away information that you managed to get other people to tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]

none of the stuff presented here is stuff people told me other than VanVeen's original quoted post. You know that the ss'ers don't share anything. I put together the hand range charts on my own. I pieced together the more than 2-street game and the 2-street all-in moves on on my own by datamining. I don't think that is the same as anyone telling me anything. Also, it isn't hard to datamine and see players open-pushing the SB with some curious hands. So, ummm....yeah as far as anyone "telling" me anything.

And guess what, the games haven't died. Very little has changed.

$$$$ is a false idol anyway (I know that's an unpopular opinion around here, but most of us live in the biggest period of luxury in human history) ... there are many things that one can do for $$$$. Part of the reason I pursued poker is the intellectual challenge it represents. What can be more satisfying than 'teasing out' the simple strategy that a handful of players are doing to consistently win small amounts of $$$$ in a game known for its complexity?


ty though
it's clear there are still a few things that I am missing from your post. I will continue to investigate.

Plus, is it any surprise I gave the info away? Before I was PM'ed back in March or April, I believe my lasts posts on the subject of shortstacking was that it needed to be eliminated and sites should goto a 40 min buyin. Is anyone surprised that I later 'gave away' what I knew?

Since I can now make my modest, happy living playing 24 tables of fullstack with little stress, I'm fine giving this info away. Stress is really a killer.

We each choose what we want to prioritize in life. I think I just put the intellectual pursuit of the game a little higher. It seems to me that nearly every strategy post in the history of 2p2 would be a mistake according to your standards.

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dude, wtf? I never said this. Also, from me talking to other shortstackers you're spouting bull [censored]. Much of this is stuff that others have told you directly and in confidence that you would keep it quiet. Also, you blasted me for having my location set at shortstacking and bitched me out constantly for even the slightest mention of shortstacking as recently as a August or September. This post is so [censored] hypocritical that its a joke. Unf***ingreal. You're such a joke.

Free kurosh.

[MyTurn2Raise]

sorry....was responding to Kurosh, not you


other shortstackers have bad memories....they did not tell me [censored] other than to look into 6max. I was more than forthcoming with all of them and was one of the few who would share. A few have made alot of money from my simple advice. I'm disappointed that they would be so upset with me... so it goes.

EDIT: I firmly believe that anyone I chatted with about shortstacking will not be worse off in the longrun with this stuff posted.


good job trying to derail the thread and get it locked


EDIT: I've always had problems with the whole shorties v fullies arguments on this board and didn't know whether to post or not post. I decided to post, partly because I'm tired of the argument rehashing over and over. Let's see if it is a big deal.

[CalledDownLight]

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other shortstackers have bad memories

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HU4ROLLZ memory style with choo choo, kurosh, me and whoever else wants to participate?

[NT=TOOLBOX]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Link to the thred MT2R refers to in setting a hand range for 6Max

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]


ty...that is the thread
ignore punter11235's first post unless you want a NIT's opening range, which is sometimes helpful to have

BigJim and AZK give really good ranges

one can find similar threads for fullring

Though BigJIm and AZK differ, the hand ranges to steal verse their range are nearly identical. The only differences will be a hand or two that are near zero EV, so not a big deal in the long run.

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couldnt you just use you datamining database to get an even more accurate range for different full stack regs from diff positions???? made put it in their note box or somthing. Or place a certain color code that full tilt allows (but stars does not). I know that i accually used to have same stats at many others but my specific hand ranges were wheighted differently (specifically sc's and off suit broadway hands. as well as positions in general)

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
other shortstackers have bad memories

[/ QUOTE ]

HU4ROLLZ memory style with choo choo, kurosh, me and whoever else wants to participate?

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quit trying to derail

the advice I got from other shortstackers summed up to zero other than to look at 6max games

I don't know how HU4rollz will change that


CalledDownLight,
what do you personally know? Did you ever share anything with me? Do you know the exact conversations I've had with other shorties? Imsakidd basically started to talk with me hoping to get info out of me. I did give him alot. I datamined and sent on the hands and my observations on 40putts and kurosh among others. I pointed out the minraises and how it could be good in theory. I constructed huge restealing charts and sent them along. When it came to the point where I was stuck and wanted an opinion, the response was I'll coach you for $100+ per hour... lollerskates. As far as Kurosh, I've talked to him via PMs once or twice and had a side convo on IRC once. It was clear he just wanted to know what I knew and had no attention of sharing any info. He was kind of upset that it was rather easy to just datamine much of his play. Other than that, I gave one free coaching lesson via AIM to a poster who has helped me out in the past in a different area of gambling. IIRC, the coaching lesson has netted him many, many thousands. The lesson I gave to this player was actively campaigned against by Imsakidd. Imsakidd also got on this poster and actively encouraged him not to share any later info with me. I tried to contact a few other shorties via PM and got no response.

There, I've publicly put out my entire relationships to all of 2p2 so we can just move pass the BS attempted derailment of a thread by shortstackers afraid that they will lose their bucket.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Link to the thred MT2R refers to in setting a hand range for 6Max

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

[/ QUOTE ]


ty...that is the thread
ignore punter11235's first post unless you want a NIT's opening range, which is sometimes helpful to have

BigJim and AZK give really good ranges

one can find similar threads for fullring

Though BigJIm and AZK differ, the hand ranges to steal verse their range are nearly identical. The only differences will be a hand or two that are near zero EV, so not a big deal in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

couldnt you just use you datamining database to get an even more accurate range for different full stack regs from diff positions???? made put it in their note box or somthing. Or place a certain color code that full tilt allows (but stars does not). I know that i accually used to have same stats at many others but my specific hand ranges were wheighted differently (specifically sc's and off suit broadway hands. as well as positions in general)

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that would work, but it's kind of unnecessary

as long as you're close, the ev calcs will not be off by that much

the biggest thing of note is to realize that some players favor pairs and/or suited connectors while others favor big cards in putting together their ranges. THis will have some effect and the ranges you play should adjust accordingly. A player note seems like a good idea. Mainly, I've just grown to know this stuff after playing thousands of hands verse some regs.

[kindling]

[ QUOTE ]
Part of the reason I pursued poker is the intellectual challenge it represents. What can be more satisfying than 'teasing out' the simple strategy that a handful of players are doing to consistently win small amounts of $$$$ in a game known for its complexity?


[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, this is why I like this thread. I want to study short-stacking because it seems like a "solvable" problem. I hope to understand how to analyze poker problems in general by applying it to this "simple" case. I don't know if I'll SS much unless I'm trying to clear a bonus or something, but I know I'll learn tons just from doing the homework.

IMO, I don't think this thread is different from any other strategy discussion, in that you're likely to mess it up if you implement it without really understanding it.

Thanks for sharing!