2NL - I'm terrible with Overpairs...do I just bet here?

[MikeRand2000]

I have a few problems with premium hands that become top pairs or overpairs. I have no idea how to reconcile keeping the pot small while still value betting.

Hands like this confuse me...

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $1.57
UTG+1: $5.07
MP1: $0.74
MP2: $5.06
Hero (CO): $1.24
BTN: $3.29
SB: $4.94
BB: $5.18

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.04</font>, BTN calls $0.04, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.15) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $0.10</font>, MP1 calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.45) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">MP1 bets $0.10</font>, Hero calls $0.10, BTN folds

River: ($0.65) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">MP1 bets $0.50 and is All-In</font>, Hero calls $0.50

Preflop: I think I screwed up with the min-raise here. MP1 is a good player (didn't have the read at the time, but subsequent play confirmed this). I guess I'm gunshy from constantly stealing the blinds at 2NL with anything larger than a 3BB raise. I have no read on BTN.

Flop: This is the part that kills me. SPR is good: ~4 against EP opener, ~8 against button. I think I should have bet 2/3-1x the pot.

However, it feels like an SPR of 4 is still a really tough spot to be in. If I make a pot-sized bet and get called, aren't I way behind on the rest of the money going in?

I know that PNL talks about the issue of SPR = 13 with top pairs. I just have a hard time even making the bet at the committment threshold (SPR = 4), knowing full well that getting called will result in a difficult all-in decision on the turn.

Turn &amp; River: Complete donkey play, I know.

I guess my question is this: I feel like SPR 4 is almost as difficult as SPR 13 in a lot of cases because pulling the trigger on the flop commits you for the rest of the hand. If I bet the aces here and get called, anything that falls on the turn is going to give me heartburn. Am I a wimp? How do you guys get over the SPR 4 situations?

[Micro Donk]

as a rule you dont want to keep the pot small with AA. you might be misapplying pot control.

pf: dont minraise like you said, make it .10

flop: again, as you said, bet 2/3-3/4 pot

turn: as played i dont mind the turn call actually

river: dont like this spot at all...

as to answer your question: bet!

[sivadom]

The idea of SPRs in PNL is that when you hit your target, or are under your target, you ARE committed. You dont fear any hands from your opponent, you simply try to get the money in the pot in the way you deem most likely to succeed in getting the money in per the situation. So, in this situation, you want to raise preflop to something reasonable, say .10, which leaves you at ~3:1, and you're 2 bets from all in. Dont look at the flop and think about how he could have the straight, or maybe he flopped a set, etc. You're committed, saddle up and bet/raise. You might lose one or both opponents along the way, but playing aces passively is burning money imo.

You might want to try Phil Gordon's "Little Green Book." It's less technical and easier to absorb quickly.

[infinity235]

PF: Raise to .10, a 5BB raise. PNL also states that if you have aces, you get your [censored] money in preflop as fast as possible.

Flop: Jesus. Had you raised more, you're probably allin on the flop already. Pot this thing, very wet board... and you have the backdoor nut flush draw.

Turn: Call is okay, given that you actually have the odds for a redraw to the nut flush. If you used SPR correctly, you would be all-in already on the turn. See sivadom's post.

[kroeliewoelie]

Don't keep the pot small with AA in 6max when 100BB deep. Look for a way to get money in the pot. A good first step would be to raise a decent amount preflop. If you raise preflop, you shouldn't worry about this flop. Because you hold the Ac and 85/53 will in general not call raises. If they do, then they will do it with so much other junk that you should even be more inclined to bet more preflop. Occassionally you will lose a stack with AA by getting it in on almost every flop, but that doesn't compare to the times you stack someone.

[catoandtonic]

Once you become more comfortable playing poker you should always have at least 100 bb's to start a hand. It is not a sin to have less than 100 bb's if you are "getting your feet wet." Once you have an edge on your opponents, then the larger the effective stacks, the larger your winrate. This is a side point and I will not dwell on it.

As you and others have said, the minraise pre-flop was not a very good move. From a pure equity standpoint, you want to get the most in pre-flop as possible. Villains at this level are surely going to call more than a minraise with wide variety of hands. In fact they will probably call a huge raise with those same hands. Your standard raise at this level with AA should be the MAX amount that you believe will be called. You can trust that your opponents will make major mistakes post-flop, because of the average low skill level at these stakes. This concept can be applied on other streets with other strong relative hands and imo is the easiest way to beat the lower stakes. eg.. straight or flush on the turn.

As a matter of fact, this is even true at much higher stakes where the players are much more savvy and odds aware. At the higher stakes, your opponents are going to value bet much harder their good hands, and to counteract this, you must do the same. One of your defenses is going to try to avoid paying them off, but it is impossible to win without getting paid yourself when it is your turn.

So, regarding this hand, we are focusing on getting paid with AA.

We should raise the MAX amount that we think is going to be called. DO NOT be afraid to test raise a very large raise, like to 13-16c. If that seems to get called frequently, then great, if not we can knock it down a cent or two. We can also observe our opponent(s) closely to determine if he is the type who calls 10c or a 24c raise. Whatever happens, we will never raise less than 4-5x the blind. If we did raise such a weak amount, then we would be offering our opponents too good of implied odds since we will rarely be folding post-flop. Our strategy is going to be pretty simple: RAM AND JAM!!! We will bet the most on any street that is reasonable.

Pre Flop: Bet the most that you believe will be called. Minimum of 4x the BB and preferably more.
Flop: Bet 85%-100% of pot regardless of flop or we make a pot sized raise.
Turn: Bet 75-100% of pot almost regardless of turn or we make a pot sized raise.
River: Little lee-way here, but I would generally recommend betting/calling 60%- all in, weighted heavily towards all in. This is going to be the trickiest street, but by this point we should be pot committed so f it, all in. You will sometimes be disappointed but a much larger portion of the time you will be rewarded.

The above can be modified slightly. There is a general pattern that you should be all in with AA by the time you get to showdown. In general with AA at this stake you should see showdown(with 100bb's) or close to it almost every time.

As a side point, a balanced strategy is required to beat higher stakes. At this level, balance is not required so much. If you employ a strategy value betting the [censored] out of your good hands at 5nl then you will beat it quicker than people will catch on to what you are doing. And I strongly suspect that you could spend your life at 5nl with little to no balancing and still crush it, consistently.


I would like to say that if you have a stack much over 100bb's then it becomes much more complicated and much of what I said is not as true. With 100bb's please get all in.

I spent a lot of time on this post, so I hope it helps someone.

[Dr_Doctr]

Nice post cato.

[Brons]

I agree. Nice read for us microdonks.

[MikeRand2000]

Much appreciated. It's easy to read PNL and gain a fear of overpairs and top pairs ("gee, I don't want to be the donk blowing his stack on top pair").

Guess I need to get comfortable with +EV plays against a well-thought out range of hands that may result in my getting stacked a few times in the process when someone has the high end of the range (two pair+)