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#31
08-30-2006, 04:15 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
You have to keep in mind the fact that player B might make some bet-sized mistakes, but player A is making pot-sized mistakes. [/ QUOTE ] Repeating something from a book designed for 3/6 B&M games in 2002 has nothing to do with what goes on in a forum like this. There are no pot sized errors, bet sized errors, or magical fairies that will shower you with gold if you protect your hand. There is only value won and lost, calculated to two decimal places, in search of a bigger bottom line. 
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#32
08-30-2006, 04:22 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You have to keep in mind the fact that player B might make some bet-sized mistakes, but player A is making pot-sized mistakes. [/ QUOTE ] Repeating something from a book designed for 3/6 B&M games in 2002 has nothing to do with what goes on in a forum like this. There are no pot sized errors, bet sized errors, or magical fairies that will shower you with gold if you protect your hand. There is only value won and lost, calculated to two decimal places, in search of a bigger bottom line. [/ QUOTE ] All mmcd is saying is "fold early, call late", which is sound advice for any limit hold 'em game.
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#34
08-30-2006, 04:41 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Over 225K hands of 10/20 6max and up I have a WTSD of 44 and W$SD at 50...of course I suck. [/ QUOTE ] No way dude, that's awesome. What do you average at showdown (filter tab)? [/ QUOTE ] I assume your asking my BB/Hand at SD and that is .39 and that is 32K hands out of the 225K hands
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#35
08-30-2006, 04:46 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
You're like Poetmagician then. I can never figure out how he makes so much money yet averages so little at showdown. Granted, his VPIP is like 1.5x greater than mine, but anything much below 1.1BB/hand at showdown and my winrate breaks even. Like, there's no way, in my mind, that he can win that much money unimproved somehow.
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#36
08-30-2006, 04:47 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You have to keep in mind the fact that player B might make some bet-sized mistakes, but player A is making pot-sized mistakes. [/ QUOTE ] With all due respect to Lee Jones, 2002 wants this gem of stupidity back. We're not playing 3/6 B&M here. There are no pot sized errors, bet sized errors, or magical fairies that will shower you with gold if you protect your hand. There is only value won and lost, calculated to two decimal places, in search of a bigger bottom line. [/ QUOTE ] It makes no difference how you conceptualize it. If a 33/60 makes a 2 or 3 bad turn or river folds in 6-9bb pots, the 50/40 will have to make quite a few losing calls before they're back to even footing. And when you talk about the extra cost of going to showdown that a 50/40 bears, I don't think it's as much as you think. In certain spots, a 50/40 might check/call where 33/60 would bet/fold, or bet/call where a 33/60 might c/r and fold to a 3-bet. Also, in some spots you earn money by going to showdown. Players that see more showdowns are might be better at inducing bluffs on the river when they have the lead OOP. I'm not saying there's no extra cost, but I think there's definately situations where some players spend the same amount on a fold as others do on a showdown.
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#38
08-30-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
Also, in some spots you earn money by going to showdown. Players that see more showdowns are might be better at inducing bluffs on the river when they have the lead OOP. I'm not saying there's no extra cost, but I think there's definately situations where some players spend the same amount on a fold as others do on a showdown. [/ QUOTE ] This is correct. Bet-fold lines, by definition, cannot induce bluffs. Actually, they can induce bluffs, which is part of the problem with them, but you aren't calling down those bluffs. In any event, I definitely take a pot-oriented thought process when I play. The first order of business is to figure out if I have a material probability of getting my opponent to make an incorrect fold. The second order of business is making sure that I don't play myself off my hand. Then I worry about collecting value, or minimizing loss. Of course, it is far more nuanced than that. But from a 30000-foot level, the betting stucture of limit hold 'em is highly conductive to seeing a lot of showdowns.
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#39
08-30-2006, 08:42 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
yah i forgot to mention that. i take alot of bet/fold lines which is why my wtsd is so low. [/ QUOTE ] I get out of line postflop a lot against guys with stats like yours. I really don't understand how you can continue to be +ev taking a lot of bet/fold lines when everyone can see you have WTSD in the low 30's. Either your opponents are horrible at adjusting, or you're getting blown off lots of hands.
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#40
08-30-2006, 09:08 PM
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Re: Hoi Polloi\'s highly anticipated stat post
[ QUOTE ]
the betting stucture of limit hold 'em is highly conductive to seeing a lot of showdowns. [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking about this a bit today, and I think it's a matter of game texture more than anything else. I'm at about 41/53 over my last ~200k hands, and I've always been in that general area for online short games. But, if were to go play in a 6-handed 20 or 40 game at foxwoods, I'd probably be around 29/67 and winning something like 5-7 bb/100
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