NL 25 J,9 flops two pair

[xeanatic]

Is this the correct way to play this against an unknown?

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $19.30
BB: $30.15
Hero (UTG): $25.95
CO: $28.50
BTN: $26.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.00</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($2.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $2.25</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, SB calls $4.75

Turn: ($16.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets all-in for $11.30</font>, Hero calls $11.30

River: ($38.85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $38.85 ($1.90 Rake)

[danny8]

i usually fold j9s UTG, but since its 5handed i dont mind it much.

post flop is fine

[wulfpacker21]

[ QUOTE ]
i usually fold j9s UTG, but since its 5handed i dont mind it much.

post flop is fine

[/ QUOTE ]

[Scott Y.]

No way. Too many hands crush you here, and SB has done everything he can to get money in. The pot-sized flop lead is super-strong and your hand can't stand any heat at all. No reason to think he's FOS or directly playing back at you, and the pot is pretty small at that point. I'd fold right there, but I'm really new at this. Maybe I give too much credit to these guys.

[danny8]

[ QUOTE ]
No way. Too many hands crush you here, and SB has done everything he can to get money in. The pot-sized flop lead is super-strong and your hand can't stand any heat at all. No reason to think he's FOS or directly playing back at you, and the pot is pretty small at that point. I'd fold right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf!? you fold to a psb flop donk with 2pair? HU to the flop? ummm.. thats kinda like open foldig aces

the flop donk is def not super strong... sure it could be, but i find when i raise flop donks, even psbs, they usually fold.

TQ and KJ are very possible, but he could be on a heart draw, straight draw., pair+draw combo. flop raise is standard, and on the blank turn you def cant fold to his shove

EDIT: sorry if i sound like an ass.. but folding flop is really bad! :P

[Capone]

yeah postflops fine but don't raise J9 utg -Ev

[Scott Y.]

Maybe. I'm only a few days into this game and don't know much about these NL25 guys. I was surprised with how sane even the low limit games seem to be though. Anyway.

Without reads I'd assume you just sat down here, so they don't know much about you. Your raise would be legit, even if your plan is to play loose ultimately. The board figures to hit you and you're faced with a pot-sized bet. Can't see that being very common. The pot is tiny with a lot of common made hands for SB that are going to stack you ~100% if you continue this way. Maybe he just holds a draw with that line, but kings up looks reasonable. If this is a common line for a bare king or just a draw or even less, then continuing is pretty clear and raising seems best, but I don't have enough experience to think that's necessarily true. It probably is, given the responses so far.

What I have seen from limited experience is a lot of players getting stacked on wet boards with hands that aren't monster made hands. The assumption is that draws and even weaker made hands (there aren't many) will also play strong so you have to show down, but I'd chalked that up to limit-thinking or at least something that wouldn't apply to randos at SSNL. I don't see, immediately, how this hand is a big earner when you're getting stacked by all bigger made hands almost 100% and still getting outdrawn a fair % of the time. If I'm misweighing hand ranges, that would explain it...but this 'raise/call any' line looks like a lot of 0th level mush to me. I didn't think HE was still this easy.

Not trying to mislead anyone. Just figured I'd start posting to sort out my personal confusions. It's been a while since I've played HE.

[FlyboyWhite]

This is just a tough hand, particularly if you don't know how this person plays. I tend to error on being conservative when I'm first learning the table. The last thing I want to do is sit down to a table and get involved in a hand with a guy who hasn't played in the past 90 minutes.

That said, I think your first mistake was raising pre-flop with this hand before you know how the table plays.

Since you don't know how this guy plays, you really don't know what kind of a hand to put him on. Looking at that board, there are all kinds of possibilities that have you in trouble. Clearly any K-J or Q-10 have you nearly in jail. Pocket nines is also way ahead of you. Pockets jacks as well, but both of these are less likely since you hold one of each in your hand. Tons of possibilities for straight and flush draws.

Basically there are a lot of legitimate hands that are ahead of you, and a bunch more that are not very far behind. Add all that up and your bottom two pair aren't the greatest holdings.

That flop and his pot-sized bet tells me that he has a fairly good piece of it, because you were the pre-flop raiser and that board has probably hit you somehow. Once you raise him, he has to know that it hit you...and what does he do? He calls.

His initial bet on the flop and his call of your raise are two big red flags.

At this point I'd be very concerned that he has you beat. When he called your raise he's either a really bad player, or he has you absolutely crushed. This is solidified with the all-in on the turn. Pre-flop and on the flop you showed that felt you were ahead. A smaller than pot-sized all-in bet shouldn't chase you away if you really believe that. So then, you have to ask yourself, why is he doing it?

The raise on the flop was okay if you did it to find out where you were in the hand. The problem is that he told you, and you still didn't listen. If you aren't going to listen to their response to your bet, I'd recommend keeping the pot as small as possible and just calling him on the flop.
Again, I think the biggest mistake you made was that pre-flop raise before learning the table.

- Flyboy White
My Poker Bankroll Challenge
http://potcommitted-buildingthepoker....blogspot.com/

[qwertyui9]

Preflop - debatable
Postflop - fine imo

[xeanatic]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just a tough hand, particularly if you don't know how this person plays. I tend to error on being conservative when I'm first learning the table. The last thing I want to do is sit down to a table and get involved in a hand with a guy who hasn't played in the past 90 minutes.

That said, I think your first mistake was raising pre-flop with this hand before you know how the table plays.

Since you don't know how this guy plays, you really don't know what kind of a hand to put him on. Looking at that board, there are all kinds of possibilities that have you in trouble. Clearly any K-J or Q-10 have you nearly in jail. Pocket nines is also way ahead of you. Pockets jacks as well, but both of these are less likely since you hold one of each in your hand. Tons of possibilities for straight and flush draws.

Basically there are a lot of legitimate hands that are ahead of you, and a bunch more that are not very far behind. Add all that up and your bottom two pair aren't the greatest holdings.

That flop and his pot-sized bet tells me that he has a fairly good piece of it, because you were the pre-flop raiser and that board has probably hit you somehow. Once you raise him, he has to know that it hit you...and what does he do? He calls.

His initial bet on the flop and his call of your raise are two big red flags.

At this point I'd be very concerned that he has you beat. When he called your raise he's either a really bad player, or he has you absolutely crushed. This is solidified with the all-in on the turn. Pre-flop and on the flop you showed that felt you were ahead. A smaller than pot-sized all-in bet shouldn't chase you away if you really believe that. So then, you have to ask yourself, why is he doing it?

The raise on the flop was okay if you did it to find out where you were in the hand. The problem is that he told you, and you still didn't listen. If you aren't going to listen to their response to your bet, I'd recommend keeping the pot as small as possible and just calling him on the flop.
Again, I think the biggest mistake you made was that pre-flop raise before learning the table.

- Flyboy White
My Poker Bankroll Challenge
http://potcommitted-buildingthepoker....blogspot.com/

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks really good reply I think you are nailing it