AK Post: I'm posting this as new because I'm tired of it

[Nairb]

Barry your posts have helped me a lot and I do not mind the condescending overtones because I realize I have a lot to learn so please keep up the colorful responses. A serious question I am interested your opinion on with something that came up a couple nights ago in a $12 180 Turbo that seemed like an easy call but what would you do here:

1st hand of Tournament you are on the button with AKo, you have a push and two calls in front of you and as the first hand you have no reads at all, all opponents are unknowns. With 3 players all in you are getting a hair over 3-1 to call, is this ALWAYS a +ev call or is there any argument for folding.

I called and would the next 100 times confromted in this situation but caught some flack from some solid players I know that said they would have folded there this early in the tourney against 3 unknown players that pushed in front. My response was I only have to win this hand one out of three times to be even and any more than that would show a profit so it is a +ev move.

Your take?

[sapsuckah]

So two nights ago I sit in a $6/18 on Stars. Very first hand, I'm dealt AcKc in EP and raise to 60. Folds to button who pushes 1500.

Well, with what hands do donks reraise-push on the first hand of a tournament? It's almost always TT, JJ, or AK. I rarely see AQ do this. Sometimes AA/KK will do this at low buy-in tourneys because they expect somebody to call.

So if you can limit the range to TT/JJ/AK (letting the odd circumstances where it's AA/KK or something like KQ cancel each other out), AKs is only 48% to win vs that range. I'd have to call 1440 to win 1590, which means I'd need to win 47.5% of the time to make it correct... as close to EV neutral as you're gonna get.

So if you wanted to make an argument for folding AK in this situation (especially unsuited), I'd listen.

But whatever -- ZOMG I had AKs soI snapcalled. I flopped a K and beat his JJ.

Oh, and you can yell at me for having a range that narrow, but cmon, we all know it's gonna be TT/JJ/AK there. And if you add lower pairs to the mix, it only minimally changes your equity.

[sapsuckah]

[ QUOTE ]
...caught some flack from some solid players I know that said they would have folded there this early in the tourney against 3 unknown players that pushed in front. My response was I only have to win this hand one out of four times

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[BarryLyndon]

This is such a rare, rare situation in online tournaments. You will only see this, IMO, once every several hundred tournaments. It happened to me yesterday when I had AA - I was up against Q10, AK, and AK.

In this spot, nairb, it's probably incorrect to call, IMO. I understand that some people think their AK situations are "rare," like if it's late or mid-game with two pushes in front and everyone at the table is around M 10 to 20. But, those situations are not nearly as rare as this one.

The reason is WHY your AK is no good here - it's not only because you are always going to see KK v. AA v. QQ. It's because chances are at least one of your As or Ks are not outs. You are probably, in fact, splitting with AK a good percent of the time. Still, if it was only one push and one caller, you've got to call.

Barry

[Nairb]

[ QUOTE ]
This is such a rare, rare situation in online tournaments. You will only see this, IMO, once every several hundred tournaments. It happened to me yesterday when I had AA - I was up against Q10, AK, and AK.

In this spot, nairb, it's probably incorrect to call, IMO. I understand that some people think their AK situations are "rare," like if it's late or mid-game with two pushes in front and everyone at the table is around M 10 to 20. But, those situations are not nearly as rare as this one.

The reason is WHY your AK is no good here - it's not only because you are always going to see KK v. AA v. QQ. It's because chances are at least one of your As or Ks are not outs. You are probably, in fact, splitting with AK a good percent of the time. Still, if it was only one push and one caller, you've got to call.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rare but are you surprised that I was up against AQo,77, and KJ and spiked an A on the flop to quadruple up. As I have moved from my initial $50 deposit starting with the $1 2-5 table MTT SNGs and building through the 3.25s and 6.50s to be rolled now for the 12-16 range I am still somewhat surprised that the play in the $12s and $16s is only a small bit better than the 3.25s.

I am sure there is a level where I could find a fold in this situation but it sure is not in the =<$16 buy ins.

[BarryLyndon]

No - actually, this is going to sound really stupid, but once I realized it was 4:1, I was going to change my response a little bit. Work called. Guh - work.

Barry

[Nairb]

poker > work

[Boise123]

[ QUOTE ]
poker > work

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly

[jchauvin]

[censored] this I happen to like Coke Zero

[SengioKang]

BARRY....

CHERRY COKE ZERO IS THE TIIIITTTTS.....

DON'T KNOCK IT TIL U TRY IT.

(i hate AK but i always go down in flames w/ it) just the other day in a tourney on stars... a spewtard redonked my overpot raise w/ K8o out of pos... i had AKdiamonds... flop top top... and he shoves... i was salivating and instacalled. he spiked 2 pair on the turn.

i still am a fan of the theory that it's hand patterns like a slot machine online where the pattern is decided the second the hand is picked.... not random numbers.... and that you learn to not overplay hands like AK.

i'm still tryin to figure it out, and i agree with the post that you have to play it the same every time... cuz i have folded it in the small blind with a raise 4 callers and the BB to act behind me... and oddly enough... high card AK would have won.... and i was sooooo mad that time cuz it was a 6 up and i folded PF.