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#12
09-14-2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The two comments mirror discussions we've had here. That without God, wherefrom comes morality? [/ QUOTE ] Depends abit on how you define morality. If you define it as a standardized set of ethics/norms that are accepted truths within cultures and for certain individuals, then you don't need the idea of a god to explain them. It is easy to see how they can come about with the partly the evolution of humans and partly the development of culture. Or to put it context, even within a lair of rats there are social norms for behavior even if their cognitive abilities are far below that of a human being, which can lead us to believe that simply evolution itself mammal species evolving a genepool that is 'biased' towards certain forms of behavior is much more fitted to survival than a mammal species that is not. As species evolve we can also imagine that individuals possessing certain traits have a higher probability of having offspring. Humans superb cognitive abilities allows us to develop social orders far more advanced than that of other mammals, and since these social can be learned and passed on to the next generation, these social orders don't need genes to survice, only a fitting 'host' in the form of us and our cognitive abilities. With this in mind then cultural bias for certain trends of behavior is also easily explainable. So there you have a much simplified explanation for morals without a god. [/ QUOTE ] but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. 
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#13
09-14-2007, 11:52 PM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
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but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] but if god does exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. That's self explanatory. luckyme
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#14
09-14-2007, 11:56 PM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] but if god does exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. That's self explanatory. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] right morals are like god; god is right morals. god is the definition of right morals. he is the standard of morals.
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#15
09-14-2007, 11:58 PM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] but if god does exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. That's self explanatory. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] right morals are like god; god is right morals. god is the definition of right morals. he is the standard of morals. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't tap the ruby slippers three times... that's the only way a random collection of unsupported claims becomes validated. If I remember the storyline. luckyme
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#16
09-14-2007, 11:59 PM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
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but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] Humans are the result of nature's ways and the culture we have created, thus morals are our fairly standardized rules of norms/behavior/ethics and hence has tons of meaning because they define us.
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#17
09-15-2007, 12:03 AM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] but if god does exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. That's self explanatory. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] right morals are like god; god is right morals. god is the definition of right morals. he is the standard of morals. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't tap the ruby slippers three times... that's the only way a random collection of unsupported claims becomes validated. If I remember the storyline. luckyme [/ QUOTE ] the heavens declare the support for true teaching. you know this already because you know god. everyone does, but you choose to deny him because of ulterior motives, primarily a reluctance to give god control of your life, which is duly his. of course, god already controls your life, because he controls everything, but you have to want him to control your life. of course, when i said he controls everything, that doesn't include what you want, because you have free will. this is all supported by scripture, which is from god according to scripture. god is good, of course, by definition, and a good god would give us something like scripture, which he did.
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#18
09-15-2007, 12:03 AM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but if god does not exist, the word "morals" has no meaning. [/ QUOTE ] Humans are the result of nature's ways and the culture we have created, thus morals are our fairly standardized rules of norms/behavior/ethics and hence has tons of meaning because they define us. [/ QUOTE ] but those aren't real morals. and if there's no hell then why not break the ethical norms for a killing spree? are you seriously so deluded that you wouldn't kill someone even though you won't be eternally punished for it?
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#19
09-15-2007, 12:06 AM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
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but those aren't real morals. [/ QUOTE ] They are real because they are part of what we are. We don't need the idea of a god to be or act, and hence we don't need the idea of a god to have an idea of how to be or how to act.
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#20
09-15-2007, 12:07 AM
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Re: Thomas Jefferson on Religion and Legbreaking
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of course, god already controls your life, because he controls everything, but you have to want him to control your life. of course, when i said he controls everything, that doesn't include what you want, because you have free will. [/ QUOTE ] I rest my case. With god, there can be no morality, by definition. thanks, luckyme
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