How to play when folded to on the sb against a good player?

[donkeykong2]

say you and the bb are both good players and you know that about each other.
What hands do you play from sb when folded to for ....:
a raise:
a raise/call:
a raise/fold:
a raise/reraise:
a limp/fold:
a limp/call:
a limp/reraise:

How do you think bb should react to our play?

[donkeykong2]

ok i ll try first and post a (crappy) range [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]:
a raise/call: aq, 99, tt, aj
a raise/fold: a6,a7,a8,a9, a10, kj,22,33,44,55, q10,qj
a raise/reraise: aa, qq, jj, ak, kq, suitedconnectors
a limp/fold: a2,a3,a4,a5
a limp/call:
a limp/reraise: 88,77,66, kk

[crossroader]

this is pretty subjective i think, hard to determine where u draw the line, for example u say with pocket 5's u would raise/fold but with 66 u would limp/reraise,also u have KQ there for raise/reraise, but AJ in raise/call, if u raise & bb reraises ur probably behind more often with KQ then AJ so why reraise with KQ & just call with AJ? all & all i dont think u can group certain hands in to categories like this, i think a lot depends on feel & how u have both been playing, table images, etc..if uve open limped from sb a few times with weak aces, suited connectors, etc & bb constantly raises, then yeah u may limp next time with aces or kings to trap him. against a good player u probably want to mix up ur play & not limit urself to raising/calling/folding/reraising with a set range of hands. some people will say never to open limp from sb & either raise or fold, but that all depends on the bb & how he plays.

[donkeykong2]

yeah but it should somehow converge to an equilibrium state (sort of) after a few hundred hands or not? assumption is that the big blind is a good player who will make correct adaptions to my play. i dont think it is the actual specific hands that matter that much, but to find the correct aggression level and the correct ratios for bluffing and good hands and also balanced ranges that hit on different flop textures.

[donkeykong2]

no ideas, whaddya think about my ranges?

[donkeykong2]

does limping here ever make sense?

[tommo]

always limp (I'm not kidding)

against intelligent guys who are going to realize that they are in a fantastic position against you I think limping a huge range works fairly well (and never raising).

against guys who respect your raises obviously bet frequently for your fold equity (if he's going to call instead of 3bet then bet hands that will do well if he calls with a strongish range)

and against guys who always call no matter what just bet your huge hands.

all of this is dependent on how your opponents play postflop. And once an opponent gets a handle on how you are playing you ought to change it up.

[donkeykong2]

[ QUOTE ]
always limp (I'm not kidding)

against intelligent guys who are going to realize that they are in a fantastic position against you I think limping a huge range works fairly well (and never raising).
...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but what do you do if he frequently raises your limps? reraising a lot or just call with almost everything? limp calling too much cant be good because he can raise the better part of his range preflop and we should lose oop after the flop if he his good.

[tommo]

[ QUOTE ]

yeah but what do you do if he frequently raises your limps? reraising a lot or just call with almost everything? limp calling too much cant be good because he can raise the better part of his range preflop and we should lose oop after the flop if he his good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm limp/calling AA just as often as 79. I think this should help clear up the problem. By just raising the good hands in his range doesn't allow your opponent to exploit this strategy. If your opponent is only raising his strong hands feel free to limp/fold occasionally.

If your opponent rarely 3bets I'm a fan of raising more hands out of the sb.

[Jamougha]

Raise because most people play too tight here.