hu killing me - Page 3

joker122 · #21 08-19-2007, 03:27 PM

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oh i see. so you think there's a pretty substantial difference between 1/2 and 2/4 then?

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very very substantial

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care to elaborate? or is it just the obvious i.e. more aggro and better play all around.

Fishinforaseven · #22 08-19-2007, 03:27 PM

This is pretty much why i signed up to 2+2. My HU game is shockingly bad.
I can slog for hours to get into HU position but then donk all my chips due to cowardly apprehension.
My last home game i got to HU, i was 70/30 favourite in chips, villain crawled his way back in chips to 55/45 so then i raised with AK, he shoved and i called. Showed 10 10 and i go busto.
Anyone got tips for HU strategy?

PartyGirlUK · #23 08-19-2007, 03:34 PM

I think you get a bunch of mediocre good players who ply most of their trade at at 30 and 50 but also venture into 1/2. None of these guys plays 2/4 so most of the specialists there are actually really good imo.

gaming_mouse · #24 08-19-2007, 03:45 PM

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This is pretty much why i signed up to 2+2. My HU game is shockingly bad.
I can slog for hours to get into HU position but then donk all my chips due to cowardly apprehension.
My last home game i got to HU, i was 70/30 favourite in chips, villain crawled his way back in chips to 55/45 so then i raised with AK, he shoved and i called. Showed 10 10 and i go busto.
Anyone got tips for HU strategy?

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this is a limit forum

joker122 · #25 08-19-2007, 04:23 PM

__1__, i saw your post before you deleted it and i'd like to respond if you don't mind because i'm interested in your opinion, which i respect.

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oh i see. so you think there's a pretty substantial difference between 1/2 and 2/4 then?

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Honestly, this means nothing HU. Either you have an edge or your opponent has an edge whether its at 5/10 or 500/1000 (assuming you're properly bankrolled).

Both CDC and joker122 seem like they play pretty well but when you have no game selection and you play opponents that have an edge over you it's a recipe for big swings.

If you lose 360 BB it doesn't mean you suck. It's just pretty likely you're playing too many opponents who have an edge on you.

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i think i have a game selection problem mainly because imo it's so hard to determine your edge sometimes. most of the time, in fact. this is because at 50/100+ your edge isn't going to be that large against most people, and secondly, it's unavoidable to let the run of cards you or your opponent recieves during the match influence your evaluation of their skill level or your edge against them. that is at least for me, but i'd be dubious if any one claimed they are immune to this.

___1___ · #26 08-19-2007, 05:01 PM

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think i have a game selection problem mainly because imo it's so hard to determine your edge sometimes. most of the time, in fact. this is because at 50/100+ your edge isn't going to be that large against most people, and secondly, it's unavoidable to let the run of cards you or your opponent recieves during the match influence your evaluation of their skill level or your edge against them. that is at least for me, but i'd be dubious if any one claimed they are immune to this.

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I think this is fair for the most part. A couple things...

One of the (if not the) most important skills for a HU player is to quickly identify if they have an edge, where they have an edge, how much that edge(s) is worth (qualitatively speaking at least), and leaving the game if you don't have an edge (or enough of one). If you can't identify that edge in 50-100ish hands you should probably quit and look for a better spot.

Obviously, the higher you play the less average edge you're going to have vs. a given opponent. With that said, I'll almost guarantee you you're using "the run of the cards" way too liberally as an excuse. You've probably played enough HU where you can almost involuntarily check off a mental list of spots where various opponents are exploitable. If you can't find anything/enough inside a certain number of hands just quit. Sure your opponent might be getting hit with the deck but if you can't identify anything exploitable your opponent is doing it's almost definitely not worth the time or variance.

Not to put you on the spot but let me ask you a couple almost rhetorical questions. When you were playing Reztes the other day...What was your edge? How many hands did it take you to identify that edge? Was that edge good enough where it wouldn't be better waiting 5 min, 10 min. or an hour for someone worse?

Finally, while some people might say the 30, 50, and 100 regulars are mediocre players, nitty, or whatever else the fact is that they have great game selection, they have the discipline to quit quickly if they are in a bad spot, and they don't let their egos get in the way.

There are probably better players out there (or those with the potential to be better) but they aren't nearly as successful b/c their lack of discipline keeps getting in the way.

This is what I've observed anyway...

PartyGirlUK · #27 08-19-2007, 05:39 PM

Joker you seem to have zero or very little game selection. I havent played a great deal with you so have no idea exactly how good you are, but it should be obvious after a short while that a bunch of the guys you are playing have a pretty good clue how to play poker and that your edge over them is at most small.

PartyGirlUK · #28 08-19-2007, 05:42 PM

It's all a matter of preference btw. If you want to play good players to improve your game, or if you philosophically believe you should take every edge you can get, then fine. But this will lead to the huge swings you've recently faced.

joker122 · #29 08-19-2007, 06:58 PM

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It's all a matter of preference btw. If you want to play good players to improve your game, or if you philosophically believe you should take every edge you can get, then fine. But this will lead to the huge swings you've recently faced.

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this is how i game select: i don't play the 5 or so names you see everyday at 50/1 and 1/2 - either bc they wont play me (pokergirlz for ex.) or i think they are better than me (fatal frog for ex.). other than that, i will play any unknown, under the assumption that a non-regular will often be a soft spot, and thus it is +ev to at least try them even though i will sometimes get into bad spots edge-wise. if i'm lucky enough to not get hit and run and can play one of these unknowns for more than 5 minutes i will make a note about my first general impression, which will help me determine if i should play them later.

dean, or anyone else, what do you do? do you simply avoid anyone you know nothing about? the action at these limits is so scarce as it is that i can't imagine approaching game selection that way.

admiralfluff · #30 08-19-2007, 07:19 PM

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Joker you seem to have zero or very little game selection. I havent played a great deal with you so have no idea exactly how good you are, but it should be obvious after a short while that a bunch of the guys you are playing have a pretty good clue how to play poker and that your edge over them is at most small.

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I just want to point out that in raked games you have to have a substantial skill edge to have a positive earn expectation. I see tons of HU matches on FT where it's pretty clear both players are just pissing their money away to rake. You see it all the time in ring games too. At 30/60 the rake is like 7.5 bb/100 hands? Which means your average edge over your opponents has to be over 1bb/100 hands. There are lots of games where this isn't the case for anyone, and there are lots of 'good' players who play them regardless.