Hand from FTOPS2 (limit HORSE)

[jedi]

I felt a little out of sorts here. I got differing opinions on what I should have done here so I thought I'd ask the O/8 forum!

HORSE MTT
1036 starters, 56 paid out. We're way far from the money, this is level 7. Blinds are 50/100, limits 100/200.

Reads: Seat 5 had been aggressive but other than that I thought the Omaha field wasn't that strong.

BB Jedi (3,328)
UTG (2,092)
EP2 (6,078)
MP1 (3,178)
MP2 (4,525)
CO (1,133)
Button (2,557)
SB stagmatta55 (1,109)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jedi [J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
UTG calls 100
2 folds
MP2 raises to 200
1 folds
Button calls 200
SB calls 150
Jedi calls 100

My first thought is that with 2 callers and a raiser, I'm likely up against a couple of low hands, meaning that the deck is heavier in high cards. If the flop comes low, I can get away from this, but if it comes high, I have a good chance to scoop with my straight cards and pair of Jacks (which is admittedly mediocre, but I think I can play them). The other thing is that I'm likely closing the action. I can't really see UTG limp/reraising.

UTG raises to 300 oops [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
MP1 calls 100
Button calls 100
SB calls 100
Jedi calls 100 NOW I'm closing the action. Easy call I think
*** FLOP *** [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
Interesting flop. Again, I put the players on lowish cards so I lead hoping to take down the pot, but in retrospect I'm sure the flush draw will come along. A wrap draw could be out there too.
SB checks
Jedi bets 100
UTG raises to 200
MP2 calls 200
Button raises to 300 Oh crud. Am I now up against KKxx? That's about the worst possible scenario for me here.
SB folds
Jedi calls 200 Should I have folded here? The pot is getting big and I still have middle set vs. what I had believed are low hands. I still think I'm up against mainly a flush draw and a wrap draw.
UTG calls 100
MP2 calls 100
*** TURN *** [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
Jedi checks
UTG checks
MP2 checks
Button bets 200
Jedi calls 200
UTG raises to 400 WTF again? A check raise from UTG?
MP2 calls 400
Button calls 200
Jedi calls 200
*** RIVER *** [K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] [8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
Jedi checks
UTG checks
MP2 bets 200
Button calls 200
Jedi calls 200 Well, this sucks, but I think I have to call here, given that it's only 1 bet. The flush draw didn't get there. The wrap draw didn't get there. The backdoor low got there, but how likely is that (unless he ALSO had spades)
UTG folds WTF???

[SmackeytheFrog]

UTG missed his flush draw (and possibly an AQT wrap draw). That could explain his behavior. Some players get caught in a mode with a flop like that, where you figure you can't lose this hand, too many cards in your favor. He put you on a low draw with your calls, and maybe figured the other bettor for a low draw, and thinks when he hits his lock high, you are splitting low.

Or they're all psycho hold em players, who knows.

So did JJJ win?

[cero_z]

Hi jedi,

You're way overthinking this. Gladly cap it on the flop, and try to confront some players with 2 bets cold on the turn. You shouldn't have backed down immediately because the flop got capped; you just have to realize that most people will be all-in by the river if they're in for 2 bets on the flop, so they're trying to get the money in when they're still live. River is a check-call.

Pre-flop is automatic, but not for the reasons you mentioned. Your cards being live is legitimate, but winning with a pair of Js vs. that field is not. You call because you're getting monstrous odds with a well-coordinated hand that can scoop with the right flop. When someone limps UTG in full ring O8, they usually have A2xx, so a big field means they will probably correctly reraise if given the chance. However, your hand was big enough to risk this, so calling was still right. Obviously after you call the first bet, you're stuck for the rest.

[KneeCo]

Seat 5 = MP2??

I'm ok with your line, I'll do that sometimes, I more often play faster 5 handed on the flop in a tournament here (go for the C/R if table dynamics are right, cap it), especially in a horseament, but other times I even fold, it's a very read based.
Don't just assume you're up against KK in an MTT, and don't ignore the other two cards in your hand which give you a nut gut shot and act as a blocker to wraps.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Your cards being live is legitimate, but winning with a pair of Js vs. that field is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I meant that I'd be hoping to flop a set with it. I do know enough that a pair of jacks UI isn't going to win here. As for the results:

Jedi mucked [J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] - HI: three of a kind, Jacks
MP2 showed [A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] and won (4,900) with HI: a straight, Eight high; LO: 8,6,5,4,A
Button mucked [J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] - HI: two pair, Jacks and Sixes

I'm fairly okay with button's play. WTF was MP2 thinking? Is this just too advanced for me?

[tvta]

- get MP2s name
- search him everytime you sign on
- never leave his table