Who's at fault, the parents or the coach?

[Blarg]

I've read numerous times that shaking and impacting one's head are very bad for kids, both from the standpoint of scrambling their brains and for what it can do to their cervical and other vertebrae. It's bad for adults too, of course, but they're at least not in developmental stages and thicker musculature and bones.

Anything that involves shaking a kid's head or creating impact on it is a no-no, and I think that coach needs to knock that off right away. Every coach should know this. I have to blame the school somewhat for not making sure their coaches don't know elementary things like this. This is too dangerous not to know.

And this is coming from someone who whole-heartedly endorses corporal punishment. I'll spank a kid when it seems the best alternative among punishments -- reluctantly, but I'll do it. But I would never lift a kid up by his head! Or give it much of a shake at all, if any. Stuff up there is way too delicate, and you can't really manage the severity of blows to the head or shaking because the damage is internal. Also, the degree of potential damage relies more on momentum and positioning than the power of the blow or shake, and you don't really have any way to judge that even close to accurately while it's happening, much less compare it to any other level of intensity. Compare to swatting a kid's behind: it's near impossible to do any damage of note, fairly easy to tell what intensity it is being done with, and the action is very granular, so you can easily judge the tremendous range between something that stings and something so crazily brutal as to actually have much of a chance of doing any damage.

Everybody draws lines differently, but messing with the head and neck should be forbidden to everybody, always. There's way too much at stake and no way to judge when you might go too far.

[bernie]

Yes, swinging a kid by the facemask should get that coach an ass-kicking. There's no reason for it. You could say it's akin to a nanny shaking a baby, couldn't you? I think it's one thing to pull him around by the facemask, but once his feet leave the ground, all bets are off at that point.

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The parties agree that this incident was accidental and affirm that Coach Boreing took no intentional action resulting in abuse.

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I have a big problem with the word 'accidental'. The coach knowingly let his temper put himself in that position.

b

[katyseagull]

Enrique,

I agree that the parents overreacted and that the coach is being immature. My take on it is that the kid lost his temper and behaved poorly but so did the coach. The coach was steamed and he hauled off and jerked the kid around for a good scolding. I know nothing about football. It seemed to me like a huge overreaction. Why not just bench the little dude or something. I'm glad you thought the tiny font was ridiculous too because I sure got a laugh out of it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


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Phil,

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I've never understood the rationale behind making someone apologize who doesn't want to. That's worse than picking up a kid by the face IMO.



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lol. Not into the forced apology ritual huh? I agree it does seem a little idiotic. I guess it’s a power play, like when my sister used to hold me down until I apologized and forced me to say that I worshipped the ground she walked on. I hated having to do that. It was humiliating.


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Blarg,

Wow, just reading your post makes me fret about kids’ heads. It’s like they have a big egg sitting on top of their shoulders (and any talk of vertebrae dislocation gives me the heebie geebies.)

Ok I understand that lifting a kid by his head is a really poor idea but come on can't you picture yourself infuriated, adrenaline rushing, faced with a kid who won’t listen to you...and you reach out in the heat of the moment and grab his collar and whip him around? Is that a normal reaction for a coach? I guess that would be pretty sketchy for a coach to do. Frankly I think it would be really hard just to watch a coach screaming at my kid let alone lifting him off the ground.

I’m curious to hear Blarg’s take on forced apologies. Good idea?

[katyseagull]

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I happen to have a 12 yr old brother (so he is a bit older then the kid in the story).

My Mom would rush to him and offer him a juice box/snack, ask him if he is all right, generally comfort him, make sure he is okay.

My Dad would probably go to the coach ask him what happened and if the kid deserved it.
If Ricky (my brother) did do something my Dad might give a talk about controlling your temper/anger/behavior etc.

If Ricky did something like the defender did here, he has to understand that is not okay. http://winningtheturnoverbattle.blog...k-mr-roby.html
(scroll down a bit for the video)

If the coach was in the wrong, my parents would ask for a personal apology to them (definitively not on a website). My parents would never sue in this case (no one was hurt), worst that would happen is they ask him to be moved to a different team.

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Shadowrun,

Your parents sound very reasonable and mature. This is sort of how I'd expect this kind of thing to play out. The fact that the story I linked has become so blown out of proportion is really amusing. I don't know which party is acting more ridiculous but the tiny font thing is making me think it might just be the youth league.

[govman6767]

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Without seeing the youtube video it sounds like the kid over reacted and the parents (oh no my little kid is a perfect angel) made this ridiculous fuss.

Does it ever explain why he was a bad sport?
I feel that if the coaches dont discipline the kids more things like this will happen www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHGwa6Y6qPU

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I see it differently. It is a 9 year old kid, he should not be lifted from the ground by a coach that is yelling at him. Discipline can be done serenely. The parents over reacted by suing, but this might have come about because the coach was not apologizing.
The little letter apology is ridiculous. It is insulting.

I guess we don't know the big picture so it is hard to blame somebody, but it seems that the coach is the immature person in this.

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Yeah your right. The bad player should be given a time out and sent to his room without nintendo Wii for 15 minutes. This discipline method is much better. As no one's feeling's will be hurt by the 67-2 loss the pansy team has to endure.

[youtalkfunny]

I don't have time to read the whole thread, or look at all the links. I just want to mention:

I've coached little kids before. Holding their face mask to "get their attention" is pretty common.

Lifting or dragging by the face mask is not.

[NhlNut]

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Holding their face mask to "get their attention" is pretty common.

Lifting or dragging by the face mask is not.

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qft

I played some football during my younger days. Coaches grabbing a face mask was very common. The best way to get a kids attention.
Pulling, dragging, twisting are out of bounds.

Should have sent the kid to run laps.

[diebitter]

If he were my son, I would inflict some direct physical violence on the asshat that did it.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Who's at fault here and would it bother you if a coach manhandled your son?

This story caught my eye today. I remember reading about it when it happened and when the YouTube video was posted last fall. Man were some people steamed!

Football apology too tiny?


Stay with me here, I know it looks long but it isn't and I really want your opinion! The story involves a youth football coach who allegedly grabbed a 9 yr old player by the face mask last fall and pulled him around so that he could yell at him for being a poor sport. The kid's feet came off the ground for a few seconds. It all happened very quickly. The league says the coach didn't grab him by the mask, the parents demanded an apology.

As I understand it, the parents stated that if they got an apology they would drop their suit and take the video off YouTube. Well after 10 months we finally have the apology! (Lol, 10 months to work out the wording, geez.) Now the father of the boy (John DeMann) is saying he is not happy with it -


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"DeMann says the lettering used in the apology is so small it's barely legible. He also said the apology is inaccurately worded to imply that he and Ricky share fault in the widely publicized incident."
"This is the most immature youth sports board I've ever dealt with, and that apology is a snub in the face of the whole community," says DeMann.



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Scroll down to the bottom of the football schedule



Lol at the Youth league for printing an apology with tiny font [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Anyway, I was wondering if any of you parents would be upset if a coach grabbed your son and is it a reasonable response to sue a coach for swinging a kid by his face mask?

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Having been seriously involved in youth sports (specifically baseball) over the past 25 years, unfortunately I’ve seen this kind of thing a number of times.

I’ll throw out a few comments………

In this particular case, it’s fairly clear that there’s more going on in this situation than initially meets the eye, given that the ‘coach’ is also the parent of the quarterback, who just happened to be involved in the conflict with Ricky. Kids behaving badly, compounded by over-invested parents following suit happens quite often. I’ve had to mediate numbers of these kinds of situations, and my experience is that you’d be amazed at how immature adults can be under this situation.

The lawsuit and desire for a public apology is IMO, foolish and ego driven. It’s throwing gasoline on the fire in an attempt to put it out.

What is the real goal here? As adults this is a perfect opportunity to teach our kids how to behave properly. In this case (as in so many others that I’ve seen) it ends up as adults setting a very bad example for all the kids involved. Is there any wonder where we learn our bad behavior?

The ONLY time any coach should ever lay their hands on a player is when it is necessary to physically separate players when there is actual fighting going on. If anyone here thinks that there is ANY other legitimate justification for an adult to put his hands on a child, I’d like to hear it.

Bottom line for me given my experiences?

The real problem in most of these cases is the adults.

Kids will be kids, and they will do what is expected, that is….behave like kids.

It’s up to the adults to maintain a “big picture” perspective so that when these things happen they can be remediated in a manner that sets a good example for our children.

[DrewDevil]

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Anyway, I was wondering if any of you parents would be upset if a coach grabbed your son and is it a reasonable response to sue a coach for swinging a kid by his face mask?

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If a coach ever picked up my son by his neck, he'd need a lot more than a lawyer to protect him.