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#21
07-15-2007, 02:31 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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They've been around for at least 250 million years. Why haven't they evolved intellect? Why has their evolution been for all intents and purposes stagnant for the the last 65 million years? Stu [/ QUOTE ] They've probably hit an extremely stable local maximum on the fitness landscape. 
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#22
07-15-2007, 02:54 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. Why haven't they evolved intellect? Why has their evolution been for all intents and purposes stagnant for the the last 65 million years? Stu [/ QUOTE ] They've probably hit an extremely stable local maximum on the fitness landscape. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, but the fitness landscape is part of real evolution. Stu is only attacking straw-man evolution.
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#23
07-15-2007, 10:31 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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They've been around for at least 250 million years. Why haven't they evolved intellect? [/ QUOTE ] Another issue. Implicit in this question is the assumption of progress, that we would expect things to go from primitive to advanced., that there is a natural tendency towards "improvement." But there's only a natural tendency to reproduce. I believe I've read that most of the earth's biomass is single cell. So we shouldn't see less complex critters as primitive and unchanged over millennia. They are elegantly adapted to their situation. They often display amazing adaptivity with methods other than intelligence. Look at the AIDS virus -- reproducing itself using the very cells that are supposed to suppress it. Or the rabies virus -- triggering foaming at the mouth and biting to increase its spread. Or bee's amazing ability to communicate location of food. We know that was not present X million years ago? Changes that do not leave obvious traces in the body should not be poo-pooed. Crocs display some amazing behavior, like diligent care of the young, transporting them in the mouth, and incredibly sensitive senses. Want another example? 100,000 years ago, humans displayed little or no art. But something came together, some sort of critical mass was reached, so that there was this incredible blossoming of culture, art, toolmaking, language, etc. When we say X hasn't changed for 250 million years, what we mean is that we have no idea what they've been doing during that time.
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#24
07-15-2007, 10:45 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
Even though we think it's pretty neat, not every animal strives for intelligence. In other words, intellect is not some final goal of evolution. The croc has proved pretty good at what it does and gets along fine without intellect (as the last 250 million years shows).
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#25
07-15-2007, 11:44 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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[ QUOTE ] That they've done so well without it more or less answers your question. [/ QUOTE ] The ideal that once an animal is adequately suited to its environment evolution pauses and staglution starts seems like a bunch of bunk to me. Is there some "magic" that kicks and stops random mutations from happening or a force which stops beneficial mutations from being passed on? Stu [/ QUOTE ] If something has evolved to suit its environment perfectly, then any mutations will be detrimental and thus croks with those mutations will not be as successful as those without them.
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#27
07-15-2007, 04:32 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That they've done so well without it more or less answers your question. [/ QUOTE ] The ideal that once an animal is adequately suited to its environment evolution pauses and staglution starts seems like a bunch of bunk to me. Is there some "magic" that kicks and stops random mutations from happening or a force which stops beneficial mutations from being passed on? Stu [/ QUOTE ] What exactly is a 'beneficial mutation' to a species that is perfectly adapted to its environment?
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#28
07-15-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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[ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] Is this seriously NR burning an evolution-denier? Awesome.
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#30
07-15-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there?
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