Crocodiles, why arn't they smart?

[GoodCallYouWin]

Crocodiles don't "worry" about your subjective opinion of their worth they "worry" about surviving.

[NotReady]

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They've been around for at least 250 million years.


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Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now.

[thylacine]

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They've been around for at least 250 million years. Why haven't they evolved intellect? Why has their evolution been for all intents and purposes stagnant for the the last 65 million years?

Stu

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Straw men don't have any brains but creationists keep reviving them.

[Archon_Wing]

Erm... evolution isn't deterministic nor is it intelligently designed. (no pun intended)

[chezlaw]

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They've been around for at least 250 million years.


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Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now.

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how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool?

and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go?

chez

[Bill Haywood]

Croc's whole strategy is low energy use. They can go months and months without eating. Brains are big energy users, they would be worse than useless.

Why do people think they've been "stagnant" for zillions of years? Sure, the basic body plan has remained, but all kinds of things can be going in with the soft parts. Since the environment is very dynamic, we'd expect crocs to be continuously adapting.

[rubberloon]

Cockroaches dragonflies and spiders have been around longer. IIRC termites evolved from cockroaches.

[Stu Pidasso]

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Croc's whole strategy is low energy use. They can go months and months without eating. Brains are big energy users, they would be worse than useless.

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Thanks Bill, thats the best explanation why intelligence would not be favored and thus not selected for in this thread. I did a little googleing and found that for a human the brain makes up about 2% of total body weight but uses 20% of the total energy.

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Why do people think they've been "stagnant" for zillions of years? Sure, the basic body plan has remained, but all kinds of things can be going in with the soft parts. Since the environment is very dynamic, we'd expect crocs to be continuously adapting.

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I'm sure there are little, superficial changes here and there, but for all intents and purposes they've dead ended. They are not the only species, Fig wasp haven't changed, and I don't think frogs have either. At least the cockroach can lay claim to spawning the termite. Crocs just don't have much to show for thier 250 million year existence.

Stu

[Borodog]

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Crocs just don't have much to show for thier 250 million year existence.

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I think you just levelled yourself.

[borisp]

Stable strategy != optimal strategy, in general.

From a reptilian perspective, our "intelligence" must seem quite stupid, as most of what we "intelligently" ponder is apparently irrelevant to our survival/procreation. The concept that reptiles are "missing" is the notion of cooperation, which confers a highly nontrivial evolutionary advantage. With my limited knowledge of biology, I would guess that this is the relevant observation, in that crocodiles stabilized without evolving into cooperative organisms. (In other words, "intelligence" might as well mean "ability to cooperate.")

I also seem to recall that sharks have similarly stabilized, along with many other "top of the food chain" organisms. As long as a species doesn't have abundant predators, their selection criteria are greatly simplified. Dinosaurs were similarly stupid, if their cranial cavities are any indicator. I would guess that human intelligence is a result of the need to avoid predators and predatorial environments, without having natural weaponry (such as deadly jaw/teeth contraptions) to do so. Instead, we have idiosyncratically useful tools (such as opposable thumbs) that help us cope.

But all in all, I bet humans have wayyyyyyyyy more fun... so I propose that we declare crocodiles evolutionarily pwned, and leave it at that. They won't even notice, and if they do, I bet they will post in NVG, where they can be safely ignored.