Flush Draw 101

[FishSticks]

nitty means very tight

[Kermit]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry hate to break the flow of the discussion here but could not find it in the abbreviations, Nitty means....

[/ QUOTE ]

nit = tight player, could refer to either pre or post flop. however, most people seem to be referring to ones preflop hand range when using the term.

[Casper05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lead is standard.

[/ QUOTE ] so that nitty UTG raiser can push the donk out of the pot with his raise? Are you b3b-ing the flop? c/r is much better than lead vs these villains imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

25 hand sample and you call UTG raiser nitty? He's unknown. c/r is bad here. With both villians being relatively unknown you should not cr. Haven't you read dbitel's pooh-bah post?

[/ QUOTE ]He's raised 3-4 hands out of 25. Yes I know that is no sample size, but it does at least tell us that he is somewhat tightish..and he is UTG.

Yes, I have read dbitels post- and I dont like c/r either...but I do think it is better than leading.

My thoughts are this: UTG raiser will give us a free card a lot, and BTN donk will call a lot. If he bets and BTN calls then we can call with odds. If it goes check-check, then we can semibluff the turn.

[keikiwai]

[ QUOTE ]
lead is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree

we have good relative position to see how pfr-er and other villain will act

i don't want to bet 3bet ai here, our equity sucks w/ a FD+1 OC, as our ai will always get called if he raises, and we're in an awkward position if he calls and turn bricks

this is the standard problem w/ playing FDs oop and imo leading is not standard, neither is a cr, and neither is a check call

in this case i like a check call

[thekernel]

I fold pf to avoid these situations. Playing AXs oop hurts my brain... and my bankroll.

As played, i agree with Casper05. Check and give UTG raiser the opportunity to bet and hopefully BTN calls giving us nice odds to draw to the flush.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

What the hell

Call is fine preflop because of donk but toss it if it's a regular.

Leading blindly into an unknown pfr and donk is terrible here.

C/R the flop with lots of folding equity.

[Mossberg]

MYNAMEIZGREG,

I'm interested to hear more about why you prefer c/r to c/c. If a TAGish UTG bets out into 2 players on THIS flop, I suspect he usually has atleast an overpair. So what part of his range are we getting all this fold equity from?

[Suigin406]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lead is standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree

we have good relative position to see how pfr-er and other villain will act

i don't want to bet 3bet ai here, our equity sucks w/ a FD+1 OC, as our ai will always get called if he raises, and we're in an awkward position if he calls and turn bricks

this is the standard problem w/ playing FDs oop and imo leading is not standard, neither is a cr, and neither is a check call

in this case i like a check call

[/ QUOTE ]

[reef2287]

c/r does mask the flush draw though, if it hits + $$, but i'd only make this play if i really know i can outplay both players and they both are tight because we are out of position, personally i like cc with the right odds

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

[ QUOTE ]
MYNAMEIZGREG,

I'm interested to hear more about why you prefer c/r to c/c. If a TAGish UTG bets out into 2 players on THIS flop, I suspect he usually has atleast an overpair. So what part of his range are we getting all this fold equity from?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, for example, an overpair. It's ridiculously -EV to just hang around/felt an ovepair here in UTG's shoes if the action goes like this and then you c/r.

Other hands include basically all one pair hands, and you have good equity against anything else. Basically, the worst case scenario is that you have 9 outs. Even if villain has two pair or not top two he has a big decision, even with someone like pr + oesd he can't like his spot.