two hands where i turn into a calling pumpkin

[Chris Daddy Cool]

8 handed must move 40/80 game

HAND1:
a somewhat aggressive player opens utg. her range is actually going to be on par with my A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here and i look left and see people want to play a multiway pot so i coldcall. a nittish regular coldcalls next up in MP. it is difficult to squeeze a nickel out of him when you show him some aggression. a whatever button calls. small blind folds. bb calls. 5 ways for 10.5 small bets.

flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

bb checks. utg checks. i bet. MP calls. button calls. bb folds. utg folds.

turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i check. mp bets. button folds. i call.

river: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
i check. mp bets. i think of checkraising but i call.

HAND2:
i don't think anybody really saw hand1 at the table, and anyways it is a different villain. he is a standard issue TAG though maybe needs some tinkering, probably reads internet forums. he probably respects my play somewhat and he knows i am quite aggressive.

i open utg+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. he coldcalls first in in middle position which is def not normal for him, esp vs me who he probably thinks he should be 3-betting to isolate my 87s or whatever. bad playing button coldcalls two bets. small blind folds. big blind calls. 4 ways for 8.5 small bets.

flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

bb checks. i bet. villain calls. button folds. big blind folds.

turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i check. he bets. i call.

river: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

i check. he bets. i think of checkraising but i call.

[B_Movie_Fan]

I can't even imagine how nitty another player must be for me to play either hand like this on either of the big bet streets.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

Hand 1: I hate the turn check. Just bet/fold the turn. Your line allows these guys to possibly see the river for free which is very bad on this board, and you get pwned by the nit. Check/calling nits down with one pair is lighting money on fire. Keep the initiative and bet/fold with confidence that way you lose less vs these nits and you charge them the maximum when your one pair hand is good.

Hand 2: I think checking the turn here is definitely the expert play and if you think this guy would raise the flop with Qx, then calling down is also the expert play.

[chillrob]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I hate the turn check. Just bet/fold the turn. Your line allows these guys to possibly see the river for free which is very bad on this board, and you get pwned by the nit. Check/calling nits down with one pair is lighting money on fire. Keep the initiative and bet/fold with confidence that way you lose less vs these nits and you charge them the maximum when your one pair hand is good.

Hand 2: I think checking the turn here is definitely the expert play and if you think this guy would raise the flop with Qx, then calling down is also the expert play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with hand 1 suggestions. Could you explain why checking the turn is best in hand 2?

Rob

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]


I agree with hand 1 suggestions. Could you explain why checking the turn is best in hand 2?

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

A tight player who presumably plays well coldcalled preflop and called a drawless flop with two players yet to act behind him. This means he has to have a made hand and since he's aggressive he will almost always bet the turn if checked to. That is why checking the turn in CDC's spot is the best play. What to do after CDC checks and the Tag bets is another issue. For example: If CDC believes the Tag would raise the flop with Qx, then that means the Tag's most likely hand is 77s. Then the expert play would be to check/call down simply hoping our read is wrong.

[HOWMANY]

I just woke up from a 15 hour slumber in which I essentially lost the day known as "Monday" but it seems pretty disastrous to let the turn check through in hand 1. Hand 2 if I'm checking the turn it's to c/r them so they can call down and lose lots of betting units.

The way these hands were played it looks like you were running terrible and scared of running into the nuts so you just wanted to show down your strong hands.

[vmacosta]

I definitely like a c/r on the river in hand 2. I think its an easy fold to a 3-bet too, but I'd guess it almost never happens.

I'm confused about your reasoning in hand 1. Your read on MP is that he will muck a lot of hands to your aggression. But at this point what hands do you want in that might fold? AQ and AT (44-66 in his range?) are the only ones I can think of and I don't really see him betting those on the turn anyhow. Also the button is likely on a pretty weak hand and letting him have a free crack at it makes me cringe.

[n.s.]

I don't really like the turn check in hand 1. I think it'd be closer if it was heads-up with MP, but with two players in and a board with a couple of possible straight draws, it'd really suck to let the turn check through. I suppose it depends a lot on what your read of "whatever" for the button means...

Hand 2 I like a lot. A TAG villain shouldn't be just calling with a Q, overcards are less likely because you've got a K (and he's drawing to 3 outs), and there are no possible draws. I almost want to check-fold the turn because his hand looks so much like a set, but that's too weak. I suppose on a board this dry he would sometimes just call the flop with AQ/KQ, but if that's the case then he'll bet when checked to, so we can get in one bet per street regardless.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

to clarify my read on the "nit" in HAND1, he is not necessarily a betting nit, meaning that if he thinks he has the best hand he will bet, so my hand is actually going to be in better shape on average than you guys think, especially since i almost never take this line so he's going to think i have two napkins in my hands rather than TPTK.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

HAND1:

i call the river. MP quickly turns over TT and i turn over my AJ and take the monies.

HAND2:

i call the river. he shows a set of 44's and i fold without showing.