maniac comes alive on the turn

[antneye]

I probably would have only called the turn bet and then called or checked behind on river. With maniacs I tend to find that its impossible to get a good read so if I have a good but not lock hand I like playing the passively and let them bet into me. His turn bet can be a weak ace, a made strt, or an outright bluff. I don't want to get in a war with this guy so I think it makes more sense to just let him donk his chips to you.

[DrMega]

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I don't really know what you're getting at. I was making a point in response to a poster who advocated raising the turn, but then checking the river, and the poster stated that he believed villain had a weak ace. I was saying that if this was true (i.e. somehow known with 100% certainty), then in these circumstances folding to the turn donk would be the correct play.

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Fair 'nuff.

[DrModern]

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I don't really know what you're getting at. I was making a point in response to a poster who advocated raising the turn, but then checking the river, and the poster stated that he believed villain had a weak ace. I was saying that if this was true (i.e. somehow known with 100% certainty), then in these circumstances folding to the turn donk would be the correct play.

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Fair 'nuff.

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Yeah, my point was if you like the turn raise you should definitely be O.K. with betting the river.

IMO, though, there's no reason to play back at him here. OP's read is weak, but it seems to me enough of a read that the turn donk doesn't necessarily mean an ace.

If he's bluffing, popping the turn just gives him a chance to fold, whereas if you just call you can let him fire again and collect another BB. Just calling also gets you to showdown with more certainty and doesn't expose you to getting 3-bet, which is definitely good against a potential maniac.

[MacGuyV]

I agree that 6 hands is enough to tell you somebody's probably a maniac.
I generally advocate more aggression than most against maniacs. IMO, people are too concerned with forcing correct folds on those who don't fold before the river. And just because it's uncomfortable to call down a 3bet doesn't mean that raising isn't the most +ev play.
This particular hand looks like a pretty easy calldown though. You have everyone's favorite overcard on the board and a 4straight, so you're much less likely to be good when you're 3bet as opposed to say a 3flush board when you have top pair. G/L

[milesdyson]

i never looked at this thread until now because there are so many responses. i always get pulled into these somehow - i wish i could just stay out, because it always ends up being a nitwar about a read or a close play or other CRAP

^^;

i've played quite a few hands where i see 5-10 hands of someone's play and i play completely differently with him. like getting in 2-3bb more on the big streets than i would if he were completely unknown. if the guy capped the last 5 hands preflop, he is almost definitely tarded

^^; huk huk

[M4in]

So what was the result?

[DrMega]

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I don't really know what you're getting at. I was making a point in response to a poster who advocated raising the turn, but then checking the river, and the poster stated that he believed villain had a weak ace. I was saying that if this was true (i.e. somehow known with 100% certainty), then in these circumstances folding to the turn donk would be the correct play.

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Fair 'nuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, my point was if you like the turn raise you should definitely be O.K. with betting the river.

IMO, though, there's no reason to play back at him here. OP's read is weak, but it seems to me enough of a read that the turn donk doesn't necessarily mean an ace.

If he's bluffing, popping the turn just gives him a chance to fold, whereas if you just call you can let him fire again and collect another BB. Just calling also gets you to showdown with more certainty and doesn't expose you to getting 3-bet, which is definitely good against a potential maniac.

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I see what you're saying - I always fall into the trap of "he called a bet, so he's probably not that strong - oh crap he called a raise on the turn, now I'm worried" and make a crying call on the river (or check behind).

So rather than spend two bets on the turn to define his hand, spend one bet on the call/check behind line?

[Yort Mada]

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So what was the result?

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he had td 3d, i'm not even joking. but like i said, this happens to me all the time and just because this one time it ended in my favor doesnt mean it was the correct play.

boz, thanks for comming back with some nice advice on the hand. i appreciate it.

thx all, like i said before, i appreciate it. <3