20/40 turn decision with top pair

[Mr. T]

20/40 live. Most of the table is loose weak, CO is a little loose and a little tricky but nothing special. In a previous hand against him where I raised pre flop and on the flop he then donked a non scary turn with middle pair and no other draw.

I'm the BB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], three limpers, SB calls, I check.

How often should I raise this preflop?

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, I bet, 2 calls, CO raises, Sb folds, I 3-bet, only CO calls.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet, CO raises, I...

[JayKon]

I play 9/18 & 10/20 live.

Getting 4:1 on a raise, I would probably do so about half the time.

Now this is just my style, but if I checked from the BB pre-flop, I almost always go for the flop check-raise. Betting isn't bad, but with a J kicker, I want some definition to the hand. Remember, you're out of position.

Now with all of those players pre-flop, you can't watch everyone. But after the flop raise, my eyes would be glued on the CO. If he gives me any kind of hyper agression, or a bluffing tell I raise back. If I see calm agression, or an "I like the turn tell" I fold.

Without more information, I'm probably turning into a calling station for the rest of the hand and pay for future information.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
If he gives me any kind of hyper agression, or a bluffing tell I raise back. If I see calm agression, or an "I like the turn tell" I fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

can you please teach me this?

[jkamowitz]

What are you beating on the turn?

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you beating on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, standard turn fold with no reads IMO.

[stigmata]

[ QUOTE ]
What are you beating on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

QxTs and Qx9x perhaps

Realistically, the best case scenario is we have 8 outs against his 78 etc. The worst case scenario we are dead already. It's a pretty standard fold unless he is a maniac.

[cgrohman]

fold

[luckychewy]

Hmmm, I put some more thought into this and I think we can call and either c/c or lead a safe river since we don't really have no reads - we've seen him lead middle pair on the turn and while raising is different I think QJ is good here often enough to make a call.

[stigmata]

Donking middle pair against a preflop raise / flop continuation bet is an entirely different situation.

Hero's hand is much more clearly defined this time, and the villain is still saying he can beat top pair. Unless you have reason to believe otherwise, you have to give villain credit for at least 2-pair here.

Oh yea, I would normally raise preflop.

[luckychewy]

I know it's differentI said so in my post, but don't you think the fact that he was able to lead middle pair there is enough to call here? We don't have to be good very often and we don't have to call the river.