When to give up when you miss

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Give them (and you) a free turn catd and reevaluate.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you are out of position, you don't have this choice. Even in position though, I think failing to bet this turn is a mistake. Yes, there are draws that will continue, but that's why you bet the river. A turn bet can fold a hand like a Ax that was just peeling the flop... it would be a shame to talk him into winning this pot when it would have cost so little, given our high pot equity, to take a shot at folding him.

-eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
but realizing you're out of position, you might consider limping, then trying to pick up the small pot on a dry flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Result-oriented thinking. Raising preflop is way better than limping. You are getting 3:1 against a random hand and a likely weak hand. Raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Check the river. Your bet will get called by a pair very often, and only serves to block a bluff attempt on his part.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, if we check, we nearly have to call anyways! after all, unless he rivered an ace, his river betting range is full chock full of missed draws. Most players do not bet 2nd and 3rd pair when checked to after a river ace. They can't imagine being called by a worse hand.

Given that, betting is better than checking, as we pick up fold equity from a scary river card. I can imagine many decent players deciding that if they weren't beaten before, they surely are now, and folding 1 pair. I might.

-eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
PF: Probably raise is close since BB is tight, but you had a poster in CO.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a tight BB, raising is the only option. Clearly folding is out, and you are getting 3:1 to fold the 3rd guy. Your raise buys tons of flop fold equity as well.

The poster will likely fold the flop more than half the time, and he's not folding the flop after hitting it even if you check. All upside for a preflop raise.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: I check this, the T also can easily hit the villains range and getting raised here sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will be raised very rarely given villains range. Fearing that the T is going to turn his hand into a raisable hand is just fearing monsters. You have a nice draw anyways, so when you get raised, it really doesn't suck, in fact. Sucking is getting raised holding a gutshot + overcard or something like that... the kind of hand you may have to just barely fold if raised, but would really like to see the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Betting here is horrible, only hands that have you beat are calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the definition of a bluff. That's not horrible, it's poker.

[ QUOTE ]
You beat some busted draws, but they arent calling your bet and will check behind you (unless the villain is capable of bluffing the river).

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean, unless the villain is a poker player? How many players aren't capable of bluffing the river with a busted draw?! Have you ever met a player like this?

Given this, your bet serves as a dual role as a blocker in a spot where you may have the best hand and don't want to be moved off the pot.

-eric

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
stox writes as the preflop aggressor you must bet 100 percent of flops even when out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a reason to do it. I mean, it's the right thing to do, but you shouldn't do it just because someone said so. I guarantee you that WITHG makes plenty of statements about the game that are debatable, don't apply in particular situations, etc (I really like WITHG, by the way).

Think it through for yourself and come up with the reason why this statement is true. Then you'll better be able to identify the times it's not.

[kbdunn]

Elindauer, I agree with all the information you posted. However my post was under the impression this is a live 2/4 game and the villain is normal passive.

I dont see many live 2/4 villains who are passive bluffing this river with air. Online, id be way more inclined to b/f the river or c/c.

I suppose im just way underestimating the fold equity of this villain given the scare card. Given that, in hopes the villain is at least a thinking weak tight, leading out the river is not as bad as I had originally thought.