TPTK vs obvious 2 pair (600NL).

[axioma]

villain in this hand is pretty rocky, something like 17/6, and otherwise seems quite solid.


Party Poker ($6 no limit). Hand converted by Check Raised hand converter

Preflop (6 players): Hero is MP with K A
1 fold.
HERO raises $24.00.
1 fold.
BTN calls ($24.00).
SB calls ($21.00).
1 fold.

Flop (13 bets ($78) in pot, 3 players): Q K 3
SB checks.
HERO bets $62.00.
BTN calls ($62.00).
SB calls ($62.00).

Turn (44 bets ($264) in pot, 3 players): Q K 3 J
SB checks.
HERO checks.
BTN bets $222.00.
SB folds.
HERO...

it looks very much like we are behind, but we have outs. thoughts?

[axioma]

ooops stack sizes didnt show up. he has 440 and i cover.

[oakley77]

you're only getting around 2:1 pot odds, I wouldnt be counting outs in this situation and would fold here, bet less on flop too... around $50, horrible turn card that u can fold to since u dont beat much nemore

[shpanko]

Yeah there's nothing a TAG is calling with pf and on the flop that you beat now except maybe TJs. Even then I don't see him firing that much on the turn with bottom pair. So I think it's a fold and no we don't really have odds to draw.

[Praetor]

easy fold

[tannenj]

i don't get it, how is this a close decision?

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

[axioma]

ok.

we have 3 outs to the nut 2 pair, and a further 4 for the nut straight.

i find it hard to put him on an hand in which we would need to discount our outs, ie. he would be reraising pre with [kk, qq], and he is not over-calling flop with [jj, AT].

so as i see it we have 7 clean outs against his very likely 2 pair, plus the fact we are splitting with another (less likely) AK, plus the fact that he may be trying something goofy.

is it really such an easy fold? what if he had more behind?

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
so as i see it we have 7 clean outs against his very likely 2 pair, plus the fact we are splitting with another (less likely) AK, plus the fact that he may be trying something goofy.

[/ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Even if you stack him every time, you don't have implied odds, if you're behind, and you're almost always behind.

[ QUOTE ]
he is not over-calling flop with [jj, AT].

[/ QUOTE ]
He didn't overcall anywhere in the hand

[ QUOTE ]
is it really such an easy fold? what if he had more behind?

[/ QUOTE ]
How does having more behind help you in any way? EDIT: Your outs are all scare cards, and you're OOP, I just don't see a way to get paid enough when you improve.

[swarm]

Do you not know how to calculate pot odds? You best learn.

We have 7 outs at most, we could have as litte as 4 if we are behind a set. Villan bet 4/5 the pot, we are not deep enough to be making loose calls...

Even if we were deep our outs are so obvious that it wouldn't make sense to make a loose call because we aren't getting paid off and often face really bad reverse implied odds when we improve to a better 2nd best hand.

Even if he flipped his hand face up, we saw that he had QJ, we don't have immediate odds to call. In fact we would barely have implied odds if villan continued to stack off when we hit or ridiculously obvious outs. I do not put villan on QJ here either by the way. This is KQ or KJ or a set of 3's.