"fives are new"

[jar]

I'd appreciate details of how the procedures work out West. I see the obvious weakness that the dealer can palm chips out of the rack undetected, but there may be other things I'm missing.

I have copy of the _Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook_, but I seem to remember it just saying to follow your cardroom's procedures for the drop and chip tray, without detailing what those were and why.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
For example, in AC and CT, there is a dealer chip tray built in to the table. Players buy chips initially at the cage, and can rebuy from the dealer. When this happens, the dealer drops the cash in a drop slot, and sells chips out of the rack. Rake/Time goes into the rack. In AC, dealers carry a toke box or tube, and hang it on the edge of the table, on the side opposite the cash box. At Foxwoods, where tips are pooled, the toke box is built in to the table. I've heard of some casinos where the drop goes into a separate box, and the dealer tray is only for making change. And apparently some at some casinos the dealer carries their tray with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to revisit this yesterday, but I got busy and forgot about it.

Let me get one thing out of the way first. In California dealers carry a tray and this is one of the few things I don't like about California.

Ideally (and my law in NV and MS at least) there should be a tray ("box") in front of the dealer with a fixed amount of money in it. This box should be fixed to the table. It sounds like in the east they build poker tables just like tables in the pit. If the casino were gambling that would be fine, but since this is poker having a fixed bank is better as it protects everyone involved. Many years ago snatch games were common in Las Vegas. One of the ways to combat this (after it became illegal) is with a fixed box. By having a set amount in front of the dealer, it will be clear if the dealer moves some of the pot into this box. By dropping cash and keeping all the chips on the table there is no way to do a quick count and see if the dealer is doing something to the players or the casino. By putting the rake in the rack the casino has no way of knowing if the dealer is stealing some of the rake (I gather they put it in a circle and then put it in the rack after the hand). This has the dealer touching it too much, compare this with putting it on a drop slide and then pulling a lever to amke it drop.

In general I like to have the tightest procedures possible. I think a good assumption to start with is anyone will steal anything they are able to. If you start with that mind set and then figure out how to make it so they can't steal you have protected the game.

As far as handling tokes, I am not a fan of boxes and such. I prefer the old fashioned approach where the delaer takes the toke and puts it in their shirt pocket. Toke boxes can give the imipression that the dealers are sharing tokes. The one advantage of a toke box is the management of the casino can take a look at what dealers are making and if a dealer makes "more" than would be expected they can check to see if he is tranfering part of the pot to his toke box; however, if a casino gets in the business of counting down their dealers they have an obligation to report the same to the IRS.

[jar]

[ QUOTE ]

(I gather they put it in a circle and then put it in the rack after the hand).


[/ QUOTE ] Correct. At Foxwoods, they put in on the game plaque.

[ QUOTE ]

As far as handling tokes, I am not a fan of boxes and such. I prefer the old fashioned approach where the delaer takes the toke and puts it in their shirt pocket. Toke boxes can give the imipression that the dealers are sharing tokes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, at Foxwoods, they are sharing tokes. The tip boxes are built in to the tables. Every few hours the 'toke committee' (dealers who volunteer to do this) comes around with a big bag and the keys to the toke boxes, and empty them out.

One relatively recent new thing at FW is a cutout in the table that holds 5 chips on the dealer's left side (in front of the toke box). Dealers place white chips they're given as tips in this until there are five, then change them and drop a red in the toke box. This cuts down on fills required, and reduces the mass of chips the toke committee has to carry around.

In AC it's pretty clear the tokes aren't pooled, as the dealers carry their tube/box with them. You can often get a good idea of a dealers mood by looking at their toke box when the push into the table.


If you keep a constant amount in the rack, how are rebuys handled?

Another procedure variation is how the pushes go. In AC, there's a whiteboard with a list of table numbers that the dealers push through. This rotation encompasses the whole room, so you don't generally see a given dealer more than once in a session. At Foxwoods, dealers generally have a 3 table rotation + a break served by 4 dealers or a 4 dealer rotation + a break served by 5 dealers. (Tom can correct me if I have the numbers wrong.) But you'll see the same dealers come through several times in a shift. How is this done in CA and NV?

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
In AC it's pretty clear the tokes aren't pooled, as the dealers carry their tube/box with them. You can often get a good idea of a dealers mood by looking at their toke box when the push into the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is clear to a regular that watches what the dealers are doing. This is not clear to a player that sits down and sees the delaer put the toke in a box.

[ QUOTE ]
If you keep a constant amount in the rack, how are rebuys handled?

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer can take care of small/easy rebuys, but generally the chip runner (or any memeber of the floorstaff) will sell rebuys to not empty the dealer's box too quickly. When the dealer gets low on chips and quarters (in small games that still use silver for the rake) he calls for a fill. The dealer exchanges cash for chips. Fills is probably the "nitty" procedure I have written up the most dealers for. it is important the dealer count the money and chips out on the table in full view, not for the cameras as everyone says , but for the players. The players have a right to see that the same amount of money is coming out of that rack as is going into it. A common way for dealer to steal money is for the delar to say "Joe, bring me a rack of white ($1 chips, not the LA $100 chip)" and then hand Joe $120. they just stole $20 out of the game by making the rack be over $20 (snatched from the game) and then handing it off to the runner to get it off the table.

[ QUOTE ]
Another procedure variation is how the pushes go. In AC, there's a whiteboard with a list of table numbers that the dealers push through. This rotation encompasses the whole room, so you don't generally see a given dealer more than once in a session. At Foxwoods, dealers generally have a 3 table rotation + a break served by 4 dealers or a 4 dealer rotation + a break served by 5 dealers. (Tom can correct me if I have the numbers wrong.) But you'll see the same dealers come through several times in a shift. How is this done in CA and NV?

[/ QUOTE ]

In large rooms there are multiple rotations where certain delaers deal in certain games (but will still push enough tables that you generally won't see them twice in a day). In a small Vegas room delaers push the entire room. I prefer multiple rotation so I can reward the better dealers with better games to deal and let the less experienced dealers deal the small stud game. Multiple rotations does leave open the possibility of bribes being paid to the dealer coordinator to get in a good rotation.

[sirpupnyc]

[ QUOTE ]
A common way for dealer to steal money is for the delar to say "Joe, bring me a rack of white ($1 chips, not the LA $100 chip)" and then hand Joe $120. they just stole $20 out of the game by making the rack be over $20 (snatched from the game) and then handing it off to the runner to get it off the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

In AC, fills don't come by request. There's a floor staff member who lurks around keeping an eye on the racks and ordering fills when they're needed. The fill is brought to the table by security and counted on the table by the dealer while a floor/supervisor watches, and they both sign to acknowledge the count. The fill isn't "paid for" out of the rack, so there's no potential for a discrepancy.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A common way for dealer to steal money is for the delar to say "Joe, bring me a rack of white ($1 chips, not the LA $100 chip)" and then hand Joe $120. they just stole $20 out of the game by making the rack be over $20 (snatched from the game) and then handing it off to the runner to get it off the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

In AC, fills don't come by request. There's a floor staff member who lurks around keeping an eye on the racks and ordering fills when they're needed. The fill is brought to the table by security and counted on the table by the dealer while a floor/supervisor watches, and they both sign to acknowledge the count. The fill isn't "paid for" out of the rack, so there's no potential for a discrepancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is plenty of chances for discepancy. If a dealer just helps himself to some of the rack there is no way to know how much is supposed to be there. No need to go to the extra step of stealing it out pot first if they can take it directly from the casino.

[MrDannimal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For example, in AC and CT, there is a dealer chip tray built in to the table. Players buy chips initially at the cage, and can rebuy from the dealer. When this happens, the dealer drops the cash in a drop slot, and sells chips out of the rack. Rake/Time goes into the rack. In AC, dealers carry a toke box or tube, and hang it on the edge of the table, on the side opposite the cash box. At Foxwoods, where tips are pooled, the toke box is built in to the table. I've heard of some casinos where the drop goes into a separate box, and the dealer tray is only for making change. And apparently some at some casinos the dealer carries their tray with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant to revisit this yesterday, but I got busy and forgot about it.

Let me get one thing out of the way first. In California dealers carry a tray and this is one of the few things I don't like about California.

Ideally (and my law in NV and MS at least) there should be a tray ("box") in front of the dealer with a fixed amount of money in it. This box should be fixed to the table. It sounds like in the east they build poker tables just like tables in the pit. If the casino were gambling that would be fine, but since this is poker having a fixed bank is better as it protects everyone involved. Many years ago snatch games were common in Las Vegas. One of the ways to combat this (after it became illegal) is with a fixed box. By having a set amount in front of the dealer, it will be clear if the dealer moves some of the pot into this box. By dropping cash and keeping all the chips on the table there is no way to do a quick count and see if the dealer is doing something to the players or the casino. By putting the rake in the rack the casino has no way of knowing if the dealer is stealing some of the rake (I gather they put it in a circle and then put it in the rack after the hand). This has the dealer touching it too much, compare this with putting it on a drop slide and then pulling a lever to amke it drop.

In general I like to have the tightest procedures possible. I think a good assumption to start with is anyone will steal anything they are able to. If you start with that mind set and then figure out how to make it so they can't steal you have protected the game.

As far as handling tokes, I am not a fan of boxes and such. I prefer the old fashioned approach where the delaer takes the toke and puts it in their shirt pocket. Toke boxes can give the imipression that the dealers are sharing tokes. The one advantage of a toke box is the management of the casino can take a look at what dealers are making and if a dealer makes "more" than would be expected they can check to see if he is tranfering part of the pot to his toke box; however, if a casino gets in the business of counting down their dealers they have an obligation to report the same to the IRS.

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to think that having the dealer carry the tray around LA style was a good thing. It never occurred to me that the dealer would be able to use it to steal (although I tend to watch the dealer/pot more carefully than average, I'm sure I'm not super hawk-eye).

I was mostly in favor of it because it meant dealers weren't pooling tips (which I hate). Pretty clearly a better way for that is the East Coast way, where each dealer has their own tip jar.

Detroit seems to be a mix of the two. The racks always have a fixed amount in them, smaller rebuys are made from the rack and the cash sits in it. The dealers count the rack+cash out at every down to make sure the total is right. Rake goes in a trapdoor/drop box on the dealer's right, tips in a clear box mounted to the table on the dealer's left. No chip-runners, so bigger rebuys have to be done by the player at the cage. I only wish they didn't pool tips.

[Grasshopp3r]

In stud, when the board pairs on fourth you can double the bet for that round. The dealers call that out in lower limit stud games.

I fixed it to clarify.

[pokerfloor]

Not all the rooms in AC do this but the Big ones do (TROP, Taj) they muck the exposed card ,burn and lay the new flop

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
In stud, when the board pairs you can double the bet. The dealers call that out in lower limit stud games.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't exactly true. When there is an open pair on 4th street you can better the upper limit rather than the lower limit.