Raising then folding AJ pre-flop - pathetic or heroic? - Page 4

brettbrettr · #31 08-23-2006, 11:34 PM

This is super-standard and its getting too many replies.

Dhani · #32 08-23-2006, 11:36 PM

I don't think it's an auto-fold, but we have to hit a pretty damned good flop to continue "sandwhiched" between a reraise and a cap preflop. A 6 3 rainbow is ok.

Xhad · #33 08-24-2006, 12:15 AM

Dazrath, I think we agree on playing on a practical basis, but on point of contention:

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But if you plug in AJo vs 7 players with the top 30% of hands, you actually have an equity deficit. Assuming that the players have some amount of hand selection, you won't be pumping any equity edge by raising after many limpers.

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Most of the time if a pot is 7-handed, people are not playing that tight. More likely there are at least a couple people in on total trash. If it is a tight table that just happened to have one fluke multiway pot I agree with what you're saying though.

bernie · #34 08-24-2006, 12:20 AM

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AJs is also a better postflop in that we are getting ridiculous implied odds on our flush,

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With only 2 opponents, and putting in another big bet, your not really getting ridiculous implied odds on your flush.

b

bernie · #35 08-24-2006, 12:22 AM

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This is super-standard and its getting too many replies.

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Yep. I'm actually kind of suprised some are saying to call this. Gotta admire the optimism though. AQo can be a dump here too.

Good fold. It doesn't come up that often, but when it does, you do save alot of chips longrun. This is different from a blind steal situation. There's just not alot of flops you really want to see at this point.

It can be tough to laydown a hand after you just raised it preflop. I'd say 90+% won't do that(kind estimate as I've rarely seen it done by anyone). At times, you will also have to do this with KQo. This is also one thing you have to be able to do when opening in EP with AJo or KQo.

As someone else mentioned, it's not necesarily the 3 bet, but the cap that is the clincher. If the opponents were major preflop LAGs I might see going to the flop. With reservations.

b

JacksonTens · #36 08-24-2006, 12:23 AM

Standard... Although it looks bad if you do it live.

You need a line if you do it live like. "You got me guys" or "Man... That was my fun raise"

JT

JT

bernie · #37 08-24-2006, 12:32 AM

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Standard... Although it looks bad if you do it live.

You need a line if you do it live like. "You got me guys" or "Man... That was my fun raise"

JT

JT

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?

I've never had a problem doing this live. There's only 2 hands this really happens with and the odds of the situation coming up twice in a night, much less a month or 2, is pretty rare.

b

brettbrettr · #38 08-24-2006, 12:37 AM

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Standard... Although it looks bad if you do it live.

You need a line if you do it live like. "You got me guys" or "Man... That was my fun raise"

JT

JT

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?

I've never had a problem doing this live. There's only 2 hands this really happens with and the odds of the situation coming up twice in a night, much less a month or 2, is pretty rare.

b

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Meh, more than 2 don't you think? AJo, KQo, ATo? For me, KJo too....

BenA · #39 08-24-2006, 01:18 AM

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Just out of curiosity, how much of an equity boost do you think suitedness gives AJ?

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Exactly 6%. That can be pretty huge if it bumps it from say, 30 to 36% in a 3 way, capped pot. Haven't read all the reply's, but it seems that while folding AJo here was correct, folding AJs might not. But I don't know, I'll have to look at all these Poker Stove results. My first intuition is to call if suited, fold if not. The reason is that if you hit a nut flush, you are bound to get tons of action, so great implied odds. AJo does not have that extra benefit.

bernie · #40 08-24-2006, 02:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Standard... Although it looks bad if you do it live.

You need a line if you do it live like. "You got me guys" or "Man... That was my fun raise"

JT

JT

[/ QUOTE ]

?

I've never had a problem doing this live. There's only 2 hands this really happens with and the odds of the situation coming up twice in a night, much less a month or 2, is pretty rare.

b

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Meh, more than 2 don't you think? AJo, KQo, ATo? For me, KJo too....

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True.

But mainly 2 because it will happen more-so when you do it in EP since there are that many more players yet to act behind you. I don't open with ATo or KJo in EP.

b