Preflop question. What do people here raise from the BB?

[Allday Everyday]

5/10 Online. 10 Handed Texas Hold 'Em.

No reads on any player.

Preflop: Hero is BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB/Hero raises.

I take it I am correct to raise here? I am just wondering what people here generally preflop raise with from the BB against two and more limpers, given that you are unlikely to knock anyone out of the pot and will be OOP. I get a feeling I do it way too much. I even do it with ATo and 99. Is this wrong? Very wrong? What are the minimum requirements to raise here?

Please help me. Any response greatly appreciated.

[Dazarath]

AQo looks good. AJo, I would probably not raise. ATo I would definitely not raise, but ATs I'd raise any day of the week. I wouldn't raise 99, would maybe raise TT, and I'd raise JJ all day. I'd also raise a lot of suited broadways here.

[jayrutz10]

Of course, it depends...Who are the other players...do MP1 and MP3 limp with weak aces, if so, I like the raise, if not, well i may limp here assuming...Will BB limp weak hands and raise strong ones, or limp strong ones too? If you miss but sb checks can you steal if all miss? With 3 in if they will fold small pairs to turn bet and not stick to bitter end, you have a drawing hand with some stealing potential when you miss with some domination potential when you hit. From cutoff I raise for sure regardless given position...here I think it is not so clear...as for more generalized, i would agree that 99s play for set potential mostly and should not raise most of the time, and A10 is marginal raising even if ideal based on above...

[HoneyBadger]

Not AQo with multiple limpers.

HEFAP suggest only raising the strongest hands from the BB (AKs, AK, AQs, KK, QQ, (JJ) I believe). It can also be a "play" not to raise AK from the BB, altough probably worth less in donk limit.

(oh, this is the advice given: "With a free ride in the big blind, you should only raise with extremely good hands, AA, KK, AKs (raise with AK, QQ only against a few callers from later position).") I don't really agree to not raising stuff like QQ or AK, this is low limit, you can loosen up some. It's probably value to raise. Still I would'nt raise AQo.

[BenA]

[ QUOTE ]
Still I would'nt raise AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]

The differences between SSHE and HEFAP have always blown my mind. Basically one book is for playing against mostly idiots, and the other is against mostly experts. Both the tight and loose game recommendations are the same in SSH, and it is "AA-99, AKs-ATs, KQs-KJs, AK-AQ." I've always raised AQ there, and sometimes even KQo (maybe that's bad). I have rarely been at a game where a in non-raised pot my AQ in the BB doesn't compare very very favorably to my opponents ranges.

[naMruM]

I'm going to answer in the vein of Ed's DVD. Your raise pre-flop from the big blind should be made strictly in the context of your pre-flop equity. Your raise trades off your preflop equity against your postflop expectation because you're tying everyone to the pot. The trade-off is greater against good players than it is against bad players, as you'll be OOP against good players who will trap you for maximum and get away from you quickly. Let's use that as our context, then read the action in front of us to gauge our opponents and decide.

5/10 online is typically playing pretty good these days. The limp from MP1 is either some weird LRR thing or it's a show of weakness/bad play, much more likely weakness than strength. So let's say it's two not better than average limpers and one fairly random SB (his odds to complete are pretty good).

I think you have the best hand at this point given the action ahead of you. The limpers already seem no better than average. So...put your money in while you have the best of it on the assumption that you can outplay them postflop. Raise.

If you had a read on the 2nd limper as being solid, or if you'd seen the open-limper LRR big pairs like this in the past, you're better off checking your option.

[Dazarath]

[ QUOTE ]
Not AQo with multiple limpers.

HEFAP suggest only raising the strongest hands from the BB (AKs, AK, AQs, KK, QQ, (JJ) I believe). It can also be a "play" not to raise AK from the BB, altough probably worth less in donk limit.

(oh, this is the advice given: "With a free ride in the big blind, you should only raise with extremely good hands, AA, KK, AKs (raise with AK, QQ only against a few callers from later position).") I don't really agree to not raising stuff like QQ or AK, this is low limit, you can loosen up some. It's probably value to raise. Still I would'nt raise AQo.

[/ QUOTE ]
HEFAP was written back when games were extremely weak/tight, and with a different set of opponents in mind. Hands like KQs and AQo are plenty strong to be raising a bunch of loose limpers from the BB. If you follow HEFAP advice too closely, you'll be giving up way too many potential spots preflop.

[Hobbs.]

a whole [censored] of big suited cards (k9s+, qts+, jts+, etc). aqo is about the limit for offsuit cards given this many limpers. with fewer limpers, and assuming they all suck, you can probably raise ajo for value, but it's really close.