Verey interesting live hand

[milesdyson]

i bet. i think you have AQ mostly. TT JJ and QQ are pretty freaking retarded to not put any bets in on the flop. it is also a pretty dumb place to slowplay AK since you're actually asking about betting the turn with an overpair+oesd.

if you just call and donk a K river, he can fold. if you call and donk a 9 river, KK calls, obviously, expecting to see KQs or KK or a hand that can't call a raise.

if KK checks behind, it's fairly transparent (unless he's getting out of line preflop in which case underpairs are possible), so figure out if aaron knows this and fold or call based on what he thinks you'd do with the information you give him on the turn.

[MacGuyV]

Seems like a not close bet. When random guy opens the pot from MP in a med. stakes game, Aaron is going to be 3betting with a wider range than everyone is giving him.

[Aaron W.]

Let me tell the story from my side now:

Some guy open-raises from MP and I 3-bet him with AA. Now this guy in late position 4-bets me. I know he's not 4-betting me light, so I know he's got a strong hand, something like AK/AA-QQ. It's folded back around to me. Normally, I would cap him, but he's a good enough player that capping turns my AA face up and I may lose some future action as a result.

So I call, intending to check-raise just the flop, and hoping that the flop is Q-high or lower to get extra raises in on the flop and maybe the turn. I should have been more specific because the flop came down QJT with a flush draw. Now there's only one collection of hands that I beat, namely KK. So there are 3 QQ hands, 8 AK hands, 6 KK hands, and of course the case AA.

I'm behind more often than I'm ahead, but I've got a gutshot to chop. I'm not folding just yet, but I don't want to put in a whole lot of bets anywhere in the hand. So I check-call the flop.

There's a blankish card on the turn, and I continue with my check-call strategy and now he checks behind, and I know that the only hand that makes sense is KK.

The river brings the third flush card, and I value bet. Villain thinks for a brief moment, notes my misspelling of verey in the title, then he... FOLDS KK FACE UP!!

Is this a good play for villain (ignoring the face-up-ness of the fold)?

[CrMenace]

Well I think I would call almost any river here as you are ahead way more than 1 in 7, so no, folding after checking the turn behind (esp. face up) is not right here. As noted, Aaron may have 3-betted a wide range... Hey! what is your 3-bet range anyway, Aaron?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I think I would call almost any river here as you are ahead way more than 1 in 7, so no, folding after checking the turn behind (esp. face up) is not right here. As noted, Aaron may have 3-betted a wide range... Hey! what is your 3-bet range anyway, Aaron?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against that player in that spot, it looks like AQo+, AJs+, KQs, and TT+.

I think a far more interesting question is what my river betting range is into a preflop 4-bettor on a QJTxx flush board.

[MacGuyV]

Yah I def. don't think you're ever bluffing into the pf 4bettor as the turn check is practically always a cheap sd line. That's still a rather miraculous fold though.

[CrMenace]

Well aside from all the sets, straights and flushes, I suppose Aaron could have the case KK, or bluffing one of those other hands in his 3-betting range. Aaron would need his bluff to fold AA/KK 1 time in 6 to be profitable... I guess this seems like pretty steep odds for a bluff (although apparently it would have worked in this case).