Heads up stud pointers

[Micturition Man]

I have been thinking about this subject a lot lately but it would take a long time to give a detailed reasoning, so I will just present my conclusions.


1. Complete or fold (I haven't decided yet on whether limping is ok if your upcard has the same rank as your opponent's... probably it is.)

2. The % of hands you fold depends on the difference between your rank and his. For example in 2 v. A, complete 100%. In 3 v. 2, probably don't complete much more than say 55%.

3. if you complete and he raises consider calling with as little as 3 overcards to his door, although this is probably often wrong. I think with 3 overcards to his door card and a 2 flush and a 2 straight you should definitely call.

4. the question of what to reraise if he raises your completion is interesting. I think it can be quite viable to simply reraise nothing. Presumably he's not going to fold much if at all outright, and this allows you represent a much wider distribution of hands when you check-raise on 4th or 5th than if you had simply 3 bet on 3rd.

Following my point about calling his raise with overcards, you will have a lot of crap hands when you just call his raise, so you kind of force him to fire on 4th fairly light. Thus you don't have to worry much about losing action.

On the other hand if you like to reraise 3rd then you could probably just do it with all split pairs and all 3 flushes and 3 straights.

If you called his raise on 3rd with a legit hand, don't automatically slowplay to 5th. Base this decision on how likely he is to be spooked on 5th by your 4th street call or any scare cards you might catch.

5. Now for the bring-in perspective. The crucial point is this - you are a dog on average and the pot is very small, so do not feel bad about folding quite liberally.

The way it works is that even though you both probably have crap, there is about a 12% chance he has a split pair as much and around 5% chance he has a buried pair. So depending on how low your door card there is a decent chance he has you in terrible shape with an overpair to most or all of your cards. That possibility is why you have to play tight even though he probably has crap.

What to reraise in the bring-in? One simple plan would be to reraise all pairs, all 3 flushes, and all 3 straights. I don't like this though for a couple of reasons. First, it gives away a lot of useful info for later streets. Second, depending on how high is doorcard is relative to yours, some of your legit hands are not that strong. (For example a split pair of deuces versus an A upcard). If his upcard is much higher than yours you probably have little fold equity, so you are better off seeing how the boards develop and maybe check-raising later, maybe folding later.

Also even though it's tempting to deny your opponent a free card, consider that there is great value in getting him to bluff 4th and 5th with rags. On the other hand he might just check-fold 4th, having got a free card for nothing. You have to strike the balance somewhere but don't be too quick to announce you have a pair. Don't afraid to take the hand past 3rd. (The best sequence is when you catch apparently bad cards on 4th and 5th, and they fire both street and then you raise 5th and they fold - when this happens you often got 3 extra small bets by not reraising 3rd.)

[MRBAA]

This is all very good thinking, but I think that most of winning heads up play (once you have a grasp of odds and different strategic options) is about adjusting your play to that of your opponent and not letting unlikely situations affect future hands (for example, you bet kings up all the way and it turns out your opponent was slow playing trips he hit on fourth, filled on sixth and now raises sixth and bets seventh, leavingyou feeling like a chump, even though you played the hand right).

It's also important to note that structure matters alot as to what you call with on 3rd. In a 3-6 game wtih a .50 ante, $1 bring in/$3 complete, it's correct to limp more and complete/call completions less. But when it's a 2-4 game with a .25 ante and a $1 bring in, it's correct to both raise and call raises more.

But that's abstract. Against a timid opponent who will often fold to raises, it's always correct to raise more. Against a calling station, it's correct to raise less with marginal hands but more with strong ones. And against most opponents it's important to play to their basic tendencies and how you think they are trying to play you.

[Wahoo73]

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Also, I have not disappeared from FT - I am there at least a few times a week.

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QFT.

You and I had a splendid time avoiding playing against each other at FTP's 5/10 stud table last night. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[*TT*]

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I never told you not to post in my threads.

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once you post, its not your thread - its 2+2's thread. Got it? good. The "its my thread" attitude is really foul when it occasionally pops up in these forums.

[lstream]

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once you post, its not your thread - its 2+2's thread. Got it? good. The "its my thread" attitude is really foul when it occasionally pops up in these forums.

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Settle down man or at least save the lesson for someone who has actually said this. I was just telling PokerCPA that I never asked him to stay out of my threads. This does not mean that I consider any thread to be mine. Sheesh

[Poker CPA]

Would you like to debate simple vs mental? Or has the OP had enough?

[lstream]

No thanks - these debates just end up with you insulting people. I don't want to cause any more board pollution than I already have.

[Poker CPA]

Hey David's conclusion is tough to beat and not the least be insulting. Sums it up rather nicely. David wins and so does the book 2Handed.

[southerndog]

I agree with MRBAA on both of his points.. Lstream and MRBAA should settle this with a Freezeout, and that HU play is all about adjusting to player tendencies..

The fact of the matter is that almost all players are going to adjust to their opponents in HU play whereas in full ring play, people take less into consideration..

Consider a pretty loose player but not a total fish in a full ring game.. fish brings it in, folded around to a solid player with a Q up completes.., highest card showing , with a T left to act, completes and the bring in thinks.. "He's on a steal.." and calls with his deuces not realizing that the guys folded the last 15 hands.... Consider HU, where he realizes his opponent folded the last 8 hands , he might fold his A4T when the guy with the Q raises...

I agree with lstream, relentless raises, etc, will make for a tough battle..

[MRBAA]

I was suggesting that lstream and pokercpa have a freezeout, not issuing a challenge.