$6 NLTRN: A8s OOP

Somekid · #1 11-01-2007, 04:55 PM

I hate spots like this. It's a raised pot, and I've flopped top pair, but a stronger ace is obviously in his range. My opponent seemed about average for this level, although his PF raises were a little big, and he seemed a little tighter than average post-flop (although he had continuation bet every pot he'd raised in position).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (2 handed)

Button (t1555)
Hero (t1445)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Button raises to t120, Hero calls t90.

Is this a call with any suited ace? What about something like Ax offsuit?

Flop: (t240) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t210, Hero calls t210.

So I've flopped top pair, but he could obviously have a stronger ace. I couldn't really think of an overall plan for the hand. C/R the flop was my other idea, but I was worried that I would just end up getting a whole lot of chips in the pot. This would be especially true if my opponent just called the c/r. I would be in a tough spot on the turn where if I made a decent size bet, it would be a large part of my stack. So I decided to check-call.

Turn: (t660) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t390, Hero???

Now I have no idea what to do. My opponent probably has an ace, but I don't know if it's a weaker or stronger kicker than mine. Any ideas on what I should try here?

HokieGreg · #2 11-01-2007, 06:04 PM

I hate flat-calling AX oop, especially to a 4xbb preflop raise. Fold preflop.

As played, I would check/raise flop.

This is a good example of why I don't like flatting AX oop. You basically hit your hand and you still have no idea where you are at and will most likely have to play a large pot to find out.

jay_shark · #3 11-01-2007, 06:06 PM

I like to re-raise with a-8 from the bb against most button raisers . How often would you say he raises otb?

Otf , you are either way ahead or way behind so check-call is not a bad option (don't think he has a 3) .Ott , you can lead out to see how he responds and go from there . Since you didn't , you should consider calling here against most players .

SFF1 · #4 11-01-2007, 07:18 PM

like everyone said above, c/r the flop would be good, but liike u said he's one of those who doesnt like to lose a pot after a big PF raise. So maybe in this case, i might flat call the flop and c/r the turn

HokieGreg · #5 11-01-2007, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like to re-raise with a-8 from the bb against most button raisers . How often would you say he raises otb?

Otf , you are either way ahead or way behind so check-call is not a bad option (don't think he has a 3) .Ott , you can lead out to see how he responds and go from there . Since you didn't , you should consider calling here against most players .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I guess I am being a little nitty by folding A8, but I think its close. If he's raising a wide range there is nothing wrong with 3-betting, but I still hate flat calling. I think A7 would definitely be a fold though against most opponents.

I hate donk-betting. You get so little value out of your hand if you are ahead. I would much rather see him c/r here or check/call all the way down and let his opponent bluff off his stack.

Somekid · #6 11-01-2007, 07:44 PM

I think I like check/calling all the way down. The problem with C/R the turn is that if I make it a reasonable sized C/R i'm committed to the pot, so I might as well C/R all-in, in which case I've probably overplayed my hand.

check/calling the turn also has the added benefit that hands like A9 and AT might check behind on the river.

Also, I'm not sure I understand why we would rather 3-bet PF here than call. I was under the impression we should only 3-bet PF with really strong hands (like AJ+), since it tends to build a pot OOP. Especially in this spot vs. his large PF raise, any 3-bet will have to be huge. So I feel like my options are between calling and folding (and in the future I think I'll fold this). I think if he had raised to say 75 or so, I would be more inclined to 3-bet this hand. Hopefully my thinking here makes sense.

ChicagoRy · #7 11-01-2007, 07:49 PM

I think Hokie was saying CR flop, not CR turn.

CR turn is pretty bad against a player that 100% cbets but doesn't bluff turns.

Somekid · #8 11-01-2007, 07:51 PM

Oh sorry, I was responding to SFF1's suggestion that I C/R the turn.

HokieGreg · #9 11-01-2007, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'm not sure I understand why we would rather 3-bet PF here than call. I was under the impression we should only 3-bet PF with really strong hands (like AJ+), since it tends to build a pot OOP. Especially in this spot vs. his large PF raise, any 3-bet will have to be huge. So I feel like my options are between calling and folding (and in the future I think I'll fold this). I think if he had raised to say 75 or so, I would be more inclined to 3-bet this hand. Hopefully my thinking here makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is basically my thinking, although I almost always 3 bet AT/KQ. Although I think 3-betting A8 is ok against an aggro villain, I would also need a read that he will fold to some of my 3bets. If he never folds to 3bets and will shove light on the flop, then this is just building an unnecessarily large pot oop imo.

Somekid · #10 11-01-2007, 08:24 PM

So what kind of hands would you flat call with OOP, or are you almost entirely 3-bet/fold OOP?