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#11
10-29-2007, 10:33 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
IM thinking of taking 2 lines. Either call and check then turn to watch him put himself AI on turn but if an A comes on turn he might shutdown.
Or reraise AI and calls. Either way he has KK,QQ many more times then he has a set. 
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#12
10-29-2007, 10:35 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
Make it $60.
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#13
10-29-2007, 10:37 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
Here's a takeaway from this hand that is getting lost, I think. We're seriously considering whether or not to continue the hand with AA. It's a tough spot. Serious consideration is warranted. So, ask yourself how often you would raise this flop if you were MP3? Probably not enough. There just aren't many hands that can continue here once you've started to threaten getting all-in.
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#14
10-29-2007, 10:38 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
Hero has 63% Equity vs a range of QQ-55, 87s, and K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
I take out KK since I figure he would reraise preflop. But even if we give him just 55,66,99 and QQ Hero still has 44% equity. I really don't think it's close. To fold here we are saying 'ZOMG he can only be raising me with a set!!' And if that is now considered the standard for a random unknown than R.I.P online poker for you have died.
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#15
10-29-2007, 10:39 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a takeaway from this hand that is getting lost, I think. We're seriously considering whether or not to continue the hand with AA. It's a tough spot. Serious consideration is warranted. So, ask yourself how often you would raise this flop if you were MP3? Probably not enough. There just aren't many hands that can continue here once you've started to threaten getting all-in. [/ QUOTE ] This is stupid because we aren't MP3 and if we were then AA is an easy stack off vs. us.
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#16
10-29-2007, 10:57 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
...snip...
This is stupid because we aren't MP3 and if we were then AA is an easy stack off vs. us. ...snip... I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow that last part. I'm not saying we have AA in MP3. Is that what you thought? I'm saying that if we were MP3, we should raise a lot on a board like this because it is very difficult for MP2 to continue even with strong hands. We don't particularly need a hand to raise here. We would rarely stack off, because mostly we wouldn't have the goods. When we are saying, "woe is me, what should I do with AA?" we should also turn it around and think is this a place where I can attack were I the villain because mostly he doesn't have AA. That said, maybe you still think I'm full of crap, which is fair enough. wouldn't be the first time.
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#18
10-29-2007, 11:14 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
[ QUOTE ]
...snip... This is stupid because we aren't MP3 and if we were then AA is an easy stack off vs. us. ...snip... I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow that last part. I'm not saying we have AA in MP3. Is that what you thought? I'm saying that if we were MP3, we should raise a lot on a board like this because it is very difficult for MP2 to continue even with strong hands. We don't particularly need a hand to raise here. We would rarely stack off, because mostly we wouldn't have the goods. When we are saying, "woe is me, what should I do with AA?" we should also turn it around and think is this a place where I can attack were I the villain because mostly he doesn't have AA. That said, maybe you still think I'm full of crap, which is fair enough. wouldn't be the first time. [/ QUOTE ] Most villains would not consider laying down an overpair here. If I tried raising a c-bet like this on random boards often just to put villains in tight spots like this, then I'd go broke quickly at NL50. Or put another way, against us weak-tight 2+2ers there is way more fold equity playing back against a cbet than versus the typical NL50/100 player. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#19
10-29-2007, 11:24 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
[ QUOTE ]
...snip... This is stupid because we aren't MP3 and if we were then AA is an easy stack off vs. us. ...snip... I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow that last part. I'm not saying we have AA in MP3. Is that what you thought? I'm saying that if we were MP3, we should raise a lot on a board like this because it is very difficult for MP2 to continue even with strong hands. We don't particularly need a hand to raise here. We would rarely stack off, because mostly we wouldn't have the goods. When we are saying, "woe is me, what should I do with AA?" we should also turn it around and think is this a place where I can attack were I the villain because mostly he doesn't have AA. That said, maybe you still think I'm full of crap, which is fair enough. wouldn't be the first time. [/ QUOTE ] The thing is that you are saying that we should raise light in MP3's position, which I agree with. However, the same logic dictates that it is now time to get it in with AA since MP3 should be raising a wide range. Thus, we should definitely be willing to felt AA in this spot. Also, I realize $60 commits us jetsetboy. I want to felt this hand. Personally I would lean toward a smaller raise than a shove because I think our opponent is more prone to making a mistake with that raise.
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#20
10-29-2007, 11:35 AM
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Re: [100nl] AA facing huge flop raise, shove or fold?
Appears to be another vote for full or crap. I can accept that. I don't believe I have to like it, though the liking part is still caught up in litigation. It may turn out that I'm full of crap and have to like it through some travesty of jurisprudence. I think there's some sort of ankle bracelet for that sort of thing, or so I'm told.
...snip... Most villains would not consider laying down an overpair here. If I tried raising a c-bet like this on random boards often just to put villains in tight spots like this, then I'd go broke quickly at NL50. ...snip... I don't really expect most villains to lay down overpairs here either. I am also not proposing that you raise here 100% of the time across your whole range and go off into the night willie nillie to find your inner lag. I am suggesting that you raise here quite a bit because a lot of times MP3 can't call even though his hand is better than yours. I'm a much better small pot player than I am a big pot player. I look at pots where I ended up cursing how I had to fold TT even though I thought I might have the best hand and try to play the other side. This is one of those hands. You have incredible leverage in position with this sort of board. This is one of those places where you can pick up an extra pot with 22 or KQs or QJs where you might otherwise fold.
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