[100nl] KK, flop top set, but FD gets there on turn... - Page 3

jetsetboy · #21 10-29-2007, 03:12 PM

yep and vilain, table dynamics play a huge roll also. The idea oop is to get married to the pot if it's possible. Things like 2nd level thinking if vilain can understand that the size of the bet related to the stack size makes us commited play a huge role also when playing top set oop on a flush turn.

CalledDownLight · #22 10-29-2007, 04:16 PM

jetsetboy, I think the best players in those threads advocated a bet. Krantz, TWP, and yves all like bet. Were you linking those threads to show that its a check or just because they were similar hands? I still like bet/call.

mce86 · #23 10-29-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting the turn against an AF of 1 is spewing. Raising this river against this AF is worst. I think u have to fold the river here and that's why u don't want to raise the turn because u can safely call on a blank river and push on a pairing river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Great explanation!

Grinding2Ecstasy · #24 10-29-2007, 05:35 PM

does his AF really matter if its 60 hands?

jetsetboy · #25 10-29-2007, 10:03 PM

CalledDownLight I posted these links without reading it because they were similar hands. Math and explanations of the pro and con of a bet a check are good. About the best player, it 50/50 as at this time amoeba was considered as a really really good player and poster. The first (but the latest also) in SSNL was good. I agree with Isura saying that's not a huge leak to bet or check IN 6 MAX. Reported to the usual dynamic of the game in FR in particular at NL400- I think checking is better. I haven't found it but after that there was an interesting post in HSNL and it seems that HSNL players also check as default (but of course that's not what they always do). If one day I'll become a PB (in maybe 2 years) I think I'll make my post about playing top set on drawy boards.

FireStorm · #26 10-29-2007, 10:09 PM

$8.50 on the flop.

The Eureka Kid · #27 10-29-2007, 11:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This looks fine, but I'd bet a bit more on flop and turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QTip · #28 10-29-2007, 11:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'll make my post about playing top set on drawy boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a really cool topic for one of those.

pattay · #29 10-29-2007, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First : IP and top set I'm checking (behind). I would agree with you if we had 55/44/JJ. I also think that floating here oop after a c/c preflop with pp and hands like AQ/AJ utg is awfull and hope u don't do that too often. Don't try to impress me with NL200 stuffs or what u want I'm also a NL200 player.

Okay I don't want to spend the night on this one, even if I think it would be a good thing to discuss this subject extensively. I already spent about 1 hour to find the former "big" thread on this subject. I'm not 100% sure if this still up to date (games have change since october 06). What I feel about this subject is that u need to be facing a really agro vilain/table to make a bet here more Ev than a check and I would be surprised to learn that FR games right now are more agro than NL200-NL1000 6m games 1 year ago. Furthermore vilain is not an agro player.

Links that u should read :
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...164#Post7590064

KK grimstarr

orange KK hand

[/ QUOTE ]

wow im not trying to "impress you", i recognize your sn and i know weve logged a few hands at nl200 together, and i have NEVER pretended to think i was the [censored], and lol at me thinking im anything special because im at nl200, because thats so far from the truth. this discussion doesnt have much left, but do you really play JJ different than KK here on the turn? furthermore, wouldnt you be MORE inclined to check behind here with a smaller set rather than top set? KK can get value out of the three lower sets, so if you have 444 why are you more likely to be the turn here, as opposed to KKK?

EDIT: good links btw

CalledDownLight · #30 10-30-2007, 12:13 AM

pattay, I think you should be more inclined to bet lower sets more often. This is for 2 reasons that are connected. The first is that if you have a lower set then the villain is more likely to have called the turn with a top pair hand. You will want to keep extracting value against this hand. This also widens their range so that it includes more 1 pair hands which means that a smaller percentage of their range is draws. The second reason (1a really) is that if they floated second pair, or top pair or whatever, then they could have picked up a draw. You will need to bet your lower sets here because they can easily have turned a pair and the NFD. Since they will call the flop with TP more often than lower pairs you will be facing someone who picked up a draw a lot more often when you have a smaller set than when you have top set.

I know this isn't very articulate, but the words aren't coming to me right now. Hopefully it makes some sense.