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#11
11-16-2006, 11:18 PM
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Re: Commerce 200/400 hand. Warning: may be boring.
[ QUOTE ]
From what I saw on live at the bike he seems to be the type to get suspicious of flop raises. Raise the flop and hope he plays back and you and then you get to showdown. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I don't know Roc but this was my immediate thought as well. 
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#12
11-17-2006, 04:45 AM
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Some thoughts and questions.
I obviously am confident that my hand is best. This was not a timid line so much as it was an attempt to establish a pattern for metagame reasons. I want him to fear my calls. I want him to think that my flop and turn calls mean I have a pair. I realize that I may be giving up a little value on this hand. Maybe not though. But if he thinks I will just call with a hand this strong HU, what will he think when I raise?
This guy and this game was being played at a frenetic pace. I was trying to exert some control and change the pace. I also wanted a look at his cards. If my perception is that he thinks I am weak, will he ever just muck if I raise this flop or turn if he is on air? How likely is it that he 3 barrels trying to run me over? My instincts were to raise the river but the last thing I wanted to do was fold to a 3 bet and destroy the plan. Am I putting too much thought into the metagame? Remember, this hand was very early on.
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#13
11-17-2006, 08:42 AM
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Re: Some thoughts and questions.
While I definitely understand where you are taking this surfdoc - and it's very good you're putting it all together in the right way, (; ?) I think it's even better when you raise the river, he calls, you turn over 2nd pair almost no kicker and scoop the pot. If you really want to add insult to injury throw a dollar chip on your cards after you turn them over. It's a cocky play but definitely sends a message of don't even think you can run me over. If you have the worst hand you look a little dumb but still sends a similar message.
I'm having trouble trying to explain the other thought i'm thinking but i'll try. At least for me and my metagame with other players, the raising the river and folding to a 3 bet will be less damning than not raising the river is worth. First of all he wont 3 bet there very often and when he does you can just fold and pretend you were bluffing. I mean how bad is that? No big deal. He thinks you had a draw and took a shot. Maybe he gets a few confidence points cause he got you to bluff raise. Meh. You get far more when you raise him on the river and he pays you off which I think happens far more than frequently enough more than the 3 bet line. He may have KJ and call you and you lose but still, your job is done and roc will payoff extremely extremely light. He called me with 9 high just for information once cause his curiousity was killing him. Take the money.
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#16
11-17-2006, 10:28 AM
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Re: Commerce 200/400 hand. Warning: may be boring.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] From what I saw on live at the bike he seems to be the type to get suspicious of flop raises. Raise the flop and hope he plays back and you and then you get to showdown. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this is the best way to play the hand vs rock at all. [/ QUOTE ] Did you see how many times him and I went 4 bets on the flop and my 2nd or 3rd pair was good? Or does that not count cuz of how on tilt I was? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] -DeathDonkey
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#17
11-17-2006, 12:45 PM
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Re: Some thoughts and questions.
I agree with BK completely in this thread. He's spot on.
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#20
11-18-2006, 01:02 PM
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Re: Results: No suprise here.
a river raise also keeps your calls scary. he'll be wondering how he got tooled by betting into your calls only to have you raise. it's interesting because i wouldve raised the flop and called him down from there.
the thing about all raising the river plans is the board can easily get a little scary by the river so a lot of times when you plan to wait until then it becomes a less viable option by the time you finally get there. also more sophisticated opponents might catch onto the fact youre up to something and check by the time you get to the river.
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