December's "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out" NC Chat thread

[daveT]

Okay. I met this girl like four years ago. We have only had e-mail contact except for one face-to-face meeting since she is from a different country.

Now, she lives in America. It was weird because with going to jail, and other goings-on (I busted about three times), this year probably had more drama in it than it should have. So, to her, I may seem a little "down," which isn't too far off, really.

While on the phone, all she ever does is ask "how are you, how are you, how are you...." I admit that I don't really remember her personality, but this is not a person that I normally would want to talk to. I attempt to keep things low content and fun. I don't like to lay my problems on people, but if they keep asking how things are, they will get an honest answer.

She seems evasive on the phone, in e-mail land, and this bothers the living [censored] out of me. I am glad to hear that things are happening for her, but it takes a crow-bar to get any information out of her. For example, she is/was working on an independent film, and it took the second phone conversation, and me suggesting that she works on a film before she told me about it.

So, there is a change, and a drifting away, I think, but I am not sure.

I have called four times in the past three months. The last time I called her, I told her I only had 20 minutes on this phone card (I don't have a cell-phone plan right now), and that was all I could talk. Her answer: "That's not a bad thing." That gave me pause. I asked what that was supposed to mean, and she says she hates talking on the phone.

I sent her an e-mail, asking how was her Thanksgiving. No response.

So, I call today, and I not too pleased to call, really, but I keep things light. When she answers, she says "Oh, Dave," as if I just told her that her grandma died. I ask her what's up with that attitude, and she says she is sick. I offer to let her go to rest up, and she insists that we keep on talking. So, it is all good, right, then ten minutes into the conversation (one sided again), and she tells me she has to go because a friend is visiting.

Other Cliffs Notes:

1- She wants to live in Los Angeles, and I am the only person she knows out here. 1+1=2

2- She is probably like me, with a short [censored] limit. I am wondering if I have somehow slighted her?

3- It's been two years since we talked. I have a feeling she wants to talk about "something" but I can't put my finger on it.

4- She's a girl, and this would be standard: "something that escalated into no-man's land and you don't know what's going on?" (sorry, Katy)

5- She says she will talk to me again soon. I doubt this is the form, or the response she was thinking of.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay. I met this girl like four years ago. We have only had e-mail contact except for one face-to-face meeting since she is from a different country.

Now, she lives in America. It was weird because with going to jail, and other goings-on (I busted about three times), this year probably had more drama in it than it should have. So, to her, I may seem a little "down," which isn't too far off, really.

While on the phone, all she ever does is ask "how are you, how are you, how are you...." I admit that I don't really remember her personality, but this is not a person that I normally would want to talk to. I attempt to keep things low content and fun. I don't like to lay my problems on people, but if they keep asking how things are, they will get an honest answer.

She seems evasive on the phone, in e-mail land, and this bothers the living [censored] out of me. I am glad to hear that things are happening for her, but it takes a crow-bar to get any information out of her. For example, she is/was working on an independent film, and it took the second phone conversation, and me suggesting that she works on a film before she told me about it.

So, there is a change, and a drifting away, I think, but I am not sure.

I have called four times in the past three months. The last time I called her, I told her I only had 20 minutes on this phone card (I don't have a cell-phone plan right now), and that was all I could talk. Her answer: "That's not a bad thing." That gave me pause. I asked what that was supposed to mean, and she says she hates talking on the phone.

I sent her an e-mail, asking how was her Thanksgiving. No response.

So, I call today, and I not too pleased to call, really, but I keep things light. When she answers, she says "Oh, Dave," as if I just told her that her grandma died. I ask her what's up with that attitude, and she says she is sick. I offer to let her go to rest up, and she insists that we keep on talking. So, it is all good, right, then ten minutes into the conversation (one sided again), and she tells me she has to go because a friend is visiting.

Other Cliffs Notes:

1- She wants to live in Los Angeles, and I am the only person she knows out here. 1+1=2

2- She is probably like me, with a short [censored] limit. I am wondering if I have somehow slighted her?

3- It's been two years since we talked. I have a feeling she wants to talk about "something" but I can't put my finger on it.

4- She's a girl, and this would be standard: "something that escalated into no-man's land and you don't know what's going on?" (sorry, Katy)

5- She says she will talk to me again soon. I doubt this is the form, or the response she was thinking of.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, now I get it.

Dave, there is no relationship here. At all. Simply let her know that if and when she moves to L.A. you'd love to show her around. Then stop calling her. The ball's in her court.

[Runkmud]

To be frank, it sounds like she's trying to end the relationship. A better question is, why are you trying to continue it? It doesn't sound like you're much interested in her either.

Sometimes it's just best to let things go thier way. Who knows, in a few months she might call you with an attitude change. As it stands, I would just stop calling her.

Best of luck either way, but it certainly seems you could invest your time in better friends.

[daveT]

Okay. I could re-write like this:

Hello *****

*dammit, there is no way to end it. No way to just say goodbye. I guess long-term relationships are hard to keep, no matter the conditions.

Hello *****

*nope, that don't work either.

Hello *****

I decided that I am not calling you anymore. I do not feel that I have to spell out the reasons, as I believe the feelings are mutual, or rather, I am doing all of the work and you clearly don't give a two flying [censored].

*nope, that is not good either.

It's funny. Just about all of my friendships, I feel like I do most of the work, you know.

Hello *****

I realize that my life is [censored] up, and that in many ways I am [censored] up. As a good friend, I hope that you are not worrying, and I would not expect you to feel worry for me. It is best for both of us.....

*no, the martyr is never good.

Hello *****

Hearing from you over the past few years has been a joy in my life. I always looked forward to you and your thoughts. There is no doubt in my mind that you are a special girl, and I hope that you succeed and be happy in your life. I had a hope that I would be able to witness how your life turned out, and that the attachments that may have manifested would have matured in there proper directions.

I am no longer calling or writing. I feel that it is better for both of us to simply hold our memories as they are. I understand that you are creating a new world for yourself, and I understand that I am not able to be what I should promise.

Thank you for being a wonderful person, and a bright light in what has at times been a dark world.

With love and best of wishes:
daveT.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny. Just about all of my friendships, I feel like I do most of the work, you know.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if this is the case with you, but this is sometimes a bad sign. There are always some people who are more thoughtful and considerate than others, but it's not a market that it pays to monopolize.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, you might be better off being more choosy about your friendships and not trying to force or increase the value of anything that doesn't already work well of its own accord.

Even if you're a really great guy, there's something in many people that turns away from those who are over-solicitous. Perhaps it makes them fear that they need to rise to that level themselves, and they might not be sure if they are able to or want to. Being too nice puts people under an implied pressure to reciprocate, and it may not be one they volunteered for. It can suffocate and even confuse and anger.

Your tone and emphasis in this thread have come across as a bit needy. Neediness combined with over-solicitousness can make being around a person with those qualities, however wonderful, feel like a trap and fraught with obligations. An attitude and outlook with more of a devil-may-care feeling and a letting 'em off the hook air can be much more relaxing to be around. And it can make you seem like you have more of a life and have other things going. Paradoxically, people may value you more when you appear to value them less. And they may treat you better if you don't always subject them to the pressure of being treated quite so well.

[ QUOTE ]
Hello *****

Hearing from you over the past few years has been a joy in my life. I always looked forward to you and your thoughts. There is no doubt in my mind that you are a special girl, and I hope that you succeed and be happy in your life. I had a hope that I would be able to witness how your life turned out, and that the attachments that may have manifested would have matured in there proper directions.

I am no longer calling or writing. I feel that it is better for both of us to simply hold our memories as they are. I understand that you are creating a new world for yourself, and I understand that I am not able to be what I should promise.

Thank you for being a wonderful person, and a bright light in what has at times been a dark world.

With love and best of wishes:
daveT.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little long and the dark world stuff sounds off point and self-pitying. The sentence about attachments and manifesting is not particularly fluid or clear. I think she already knows what your expectations might have been, anyway, so you gain nothing by reiterating them.
If you are going to write a note, I think it should be really brief and lay no blame on her for anything at all. Maybe something closer to:

Thanks for being a wonderful person and a bright light in my life. I will no longer be calling or writing, as I think our relationship has run its course, but when I think of you, the memories will be good ones. I'm glad that you are pursuing some of your dreams, and it's time for me to get started on my own. I hope we both get where we want to go and have fun getting there.

Always your friend,

Dave

Maybe that note isn't to your taste, but my basic point is that you want to keep things short and positive and make no accusations or guilt trip type things whatsoever.

[tarheeljks]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, you might be better off being more choosy about your friendships and not trying to force or increase the value of anything that doesn't already work well of its own accord.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/this statement as a general way of approaching all relationships whether they be platonic or romantic

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, you might be better off being more choosy about your friendships and not trying to force or increase the value of anything that doesn't already work well of its own accord.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/this statement as a general way of approaching all relationships whether they be platonic or romantic

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah this was a hard lesson for me to learn in my life and it's still a natural instinct to just redouble my efforts when things aren't going the way I want them to. I've gotten a lot better at not doing that and not wanting to do that, but sometimes I have to very consciously remind myself of it.

[daveT]

Thanks a lot guys.

I am torn for a ton of reasons, and I am a total wreck right now. Can't play poker, can't eat. I just thought of a bunch of long soliloques. They were probably the most inspired things I have created in a long time.

I feel the urge to cry, It is not about her, as it is about other things, but she is a manifestation of the myriad failures that I have had over my lifetime.

I don't know, I suppose I am needy, it is something to reflect on later when I am not such a basket case. I am going to go ahead and send her what Blarg wrote. I don't care if she doesn't want to read it. It is selfish of me to say that it is for me to feel better, but that is that.

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay. I could re-write like this:

Hello *****

*dammit, there is no way to end it. No way to just say goodbye. I guess long-term relationships are hard to keep, no matter the conditions.

Hello *****

*nope, that don't work either.

Hello *****

I decided that I am not calling you anymore. I do not feel that I have to spell out the reasons, as I believe the feelings are mutual, or rather, I am doing all of the work and you clearly don't give a two flying [censored].

*nope, that is not good either.

It's funny. Just about all of my friendships, I feel like I do most of the work, you know.

Hello *****

I realize that my life is [censored] up, and that in many ways I am [censored] up. As a good friend, I hope that you are not worrying, and I would not expect you to feel worry for me. It is best for both of us.....

*no, the martyr is never good.

Hello *****

Hearing from you over the past few years has been a joy in my life. I always looked forward to you and your thoughts. There is no doubt in my mind that you are a special girl, and I hope that you succeed and be happy in your life. I had a hope that I would be able to witness how your life turned out, and that the attachments that may have manifested would have matured in there proper directions.

I am no longer calling or writing. I feel that it is better for both of us to simply hold our memories as they are. I understand that you are creating a new world for yourself, and I understand that I am not able to be what I should promise.

Thank you for being a wonderful person, and a bright light in what has at times been a dark world.

With love and best of wishes:
daveT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave? No letter. Just because you need closure does not mean she wants to hear about it. Just stop trying to keep this going.