[150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb's Deep

[tannenj]

i submit that pushing the river with AK would be retarded. there's no read in the op that the villain is a drooler tagfish.

edit: to be clear, i don't hate stacking off in the actual hand. but at the risk of stating the obvious, there is some point at which effective stacks get deep enough that stacking off here becomes a leak.

[loosbastard]

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9 combos AK

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I hate to bring this up for like the 11903483 time...but even villain himself said he's never playing AK this way and maybe not even 44.

[nazahl]

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

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It's absolutely the issue, and I've been banging my head against the wall for the past hour trying to show that.

And you know what the really funny thing is? You see threads like this all the time in the HSNL forums. Same type of situation: 2nd/3rd nuts facing a shove really deep.

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yeah, imagine posting this hand from villains perspective but giving him AK and being like "hey guys, nice value shove amirite?"

[ikestoys]

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9 combos AK

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I hate to bring this up for like the 11903483 time...but even villain himself said he's never playing AK this way and maybe not even 44.

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unfortunately we don't get soulreaders in poker and we don't have a good enough read to fold here. all we can do is make a reasonable range and go with it

[Danibusman]

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

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It's absolutely the issue, and I've been banging my head against the wall for the past hour trying to show that.

And you know what the really funny thing is? You see threads like this all the time in the HSNL forums. Same type of situation: 2nd/3rd nuts facing a shove really deep.

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yeah, imagine posting this hand from villains perspective but giving him AK and being like "hey guys, nice value shove amirite?"

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lol, value from what?

[nazahl]

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Maybe this is the key issue. Surely in the games Ike plays he sees players who are FAR more tricky/aggro. In my first 20k hands of 1/2, while i havent been 500+ big bets too often, i have yet to see a passivish 'tag' play < set this aggressively.

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It's absolutely the issue, and I've been banging my head against the wall for the past hour trying to show that.

And you know what the really funny thing is? You see threads like this all the time in the HSNL forums. Same type of situation: 2nd/3rd nuts facing a shove really deep.

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yeah, imagine posting this hand from villains perspective but giving him AK and being like "hey guys, nice value shove amirite?"

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lol, value from what?

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ehh I was being sarcastic?

[MichaelBolton777]

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ikes, villain has AK and shoves the river for like 300 big blinds. what's he expecting a call from ... A8? clearly there's some point at which you fold this (even getting 2.5:1). 500 big blinds? 1000 big blinds? hero has a set, but hero doesn't have the nuts.

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who said that it was a good push?

2 combos AA
2 combos KK
2 combos 44
9 combos AK

We lose to AA, KK... beat 44. If he plays AK this way 20% of the time... its a call. i rest my case.

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dam, now im on the fence again. i was so sure, too! were the odds of 2.5 to 1 the price from the turn raise or just the river bet?

[clowntable]

I don't like the "he wouldn't put in 400BB" kind of argument. He's putting in a PSB and that's how it should be treated.
This also means that we are getting good odds on the call and he could have AK/44 here.
Playing differently because the amount bet is big in absolute terms and not comparing it to pot and stack sizes seems weak/scared to me.

[loosbastard]

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He's putting in a PSB and that's how it should be treated.

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Not exactly. Villain b/3b turn and is NOW shoving another PSB into what is clearly a very strong range. His willingness to felt his hand over 500bb deep is absolutely part of the equation. You can't just ignore previous streets.

[clowntable]

I'm not ignoring previous streets but the question asked was if it's a call or not.
This decision is obviousely made on the turn, maybe it would have been better to cut the HH at an earlier point.

EDIT: + we don't even have a PSB left