***** November LC Thread *****

[daveT]

Wow, that is one hell of a calculator. I guess I need to go to computer tech to get it on my computer and use it? Isn't having the CP guidelines good enough?

[cwar]

Yum

Full Tilt Poker, $110 + $5 NL Hold'em Sit n' Go, 25/50 Blinds, 2 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): 1,185
BB: 1,815

Pre-Flop: (75) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
<font color="red">Hero raises to 100</font>, BB calls 50

Flop: (200) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 125</font>, BB calls 125

Turn: (450) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (450) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets 450</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to 960 and is All-In</font>, BB folds

[hra146]

CWAR , clear your PM box.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, can someone explain why there are discrepancies between SAGE and the jam/fold tables in Mathematics of Poker? Shouldn't they be effectively the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
SAGE is an approximate result meant to be easy to calculate on the fly. I haven't read the book, but from my understanding, the jam/fold tables require you to remember both the cutoff hand and all the relative hand strengths.

There are bound to be discrepancies. But they're basically the same. You wouldn't be making huge mistakes by using SAGE, only extremely tiny ones.

[cwar]

[ QUOTE ]
SAGE Calculator

It won't help you at 8BB+ stacks, but it will calculate the power index if you're too lazy to do so.

Additionally, can someone explain why there are discrepancies between SAGE and the jam/fold tables in Mathematics of Poker? Shouldn't they be effectively the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
No SAGE isnt perfect its just a quick an easy way of figuring the same things.

[shyturtle27]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is going to be soooooooooooooooooooooo proud of me!!!

I just copied and pasted the SAGE system, and I plan on studying it and learning it. This is going to take a while, but with it right there on my screen while playing, I am going to use it!

Still, I obviously have to study it: such a slow process when you are this lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an excel file with a bunch of charts on it while playing different tournament forms (like my unexploitable re-steal chart for MTT's.) One of them is my SAGE sheet which I have conservatively constructed to go up to 12BB and it is right there on screen beside the table I'm playing. Really takes a lot of guesswork out of end game.

[pokercurious]

Now, if I understand correctly, SAGE is optimal if and only if the other person is person is also playing push/fold.

In other words: As long as both players are limiting their actions to pushing and folding, then SAGE is optimal.

What about against a 10-13BB limper? Does that change the math significantly? My hunch is no, but I'm curious as to what the real story is.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as both players are limiting their actions to pushing and folding, then SAGE is optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sage is only optimal if both players are playing it, but it's *always* unexploitable, in that any deviation on your opponent's part will give you an advantage.

If your opponent is deviating, then it's possible you could do better than SAGE, but you'd have to know exactly how he was deviating, which is pretty much impossible to know without seeing his cards.

[ QUOTE ]
What about against a 10-13BB limper?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sage is only accurate up to 8BBs, so that's an alien question. Even against an 8BB limper, SAGE still can't tell you what to do.

[Landonfan]

This probably won't look as awesome here as it did at the table. It felt like falling off a building and getting caught by Superman at the last moment.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t15/t30
2 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
SB: t1375
Hero: t1625

Pre-flop: (2 players) Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">SB raises to t90</font>, Hero calls t60 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t105)</font>.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t180, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">SB bets t90</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t285</font>, SB calls t195 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t555)</font>.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t750, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t700</font>, SB calls t700 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1450)</font>.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t2150, 2 players)
Hero checks, SB checks.

Results:
Final pot: t2150
<font color="#ffffff">Hero showed Kc 9c</font>
<font color="#ffffff">SB mucks 2c Qc</font>

[Somekid]

Hmm, I feel like against chronic limpers, you can pretty much use the SAGE pushing range from the BB. The part I hate is figuring out how to play spots where you or your opponent have &lt; 8 BB and your opponent minraises.