why am i calling?

[bozzer]

ok hand immediately prior to this I do this:


Preflop: (6 Players)
UTG calls $0.30, MP calls $0.30, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.65</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.35, UTG calls $1.35, MP folds

Flop: ($5.40) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $2.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10.00</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $8.00

Turn: ($25.40) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $17.25</font>, UTG folds

I haven't given my hole cards because that's how it looked to the table.


In the focal hand, someone again donks into me...


Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.15/$0.30 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $58.05
BB: $27.90
UTG: $20.80
MP: $62.25
Hero (CO): $41.40
BTN: $71.15

Reads: <font color="blue">villain is 56/10.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $0.60</font>, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.25</font>, 3 folds, UTG calls $1.65

Flop: ($4.95) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $2.40</font>, Hero thinks 'hmm maybe they want to me to raise after the last hand. i might not have that much FE if I raise again. but i still think this bet is weak, so I'll float this time, especially since i have some s/d value and a gutshot' and calls $2.40

Turn: ($9.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $3.60</font>, Hero thinks 'hmmm... well weaksauce again. i think my showdown value just went up, and i think the pot odds are good enough to call even if i have to fold some rivers where he doesn't give me good pot odds. and now there's no point turning my hand into a bluff. i also still have my gs. I wonder what he has though?' and calls $3.60

rate my thought process please! it's such horrible poker, but is it correct in this spot?

[Arcturus]

To be honest, I probably fold the flop. The villian is very loose, but he raises 10% of his holdings. Factor in that he is raising UTG and that tightens the range up a bit. If you look and his range in this situation AND the fact that this is an A high flop, I think you are behind here more than ahead.

[lsaw2]

If I wanted to win the pot i'd probably raise the flop. I prob wouldn't raise 44 here either PF.

[members_only]

Wtf is your 3-bet pre-flop?

Your thought process is one I often go through when someone donks small into me over two/three streets, I have a hand with some showdown value, and I don't think I have very much fold equity. I think calling in these situations is often a fine play. I think there are a couple of problems with it here, do you agree?

1. I'm more inclined to fold to donk-bets on A-high flops

2. Half-pot (especially in a re-raised pot) isn't 'weaksauce'... or at least doesn't offer you very good odds

3. Unlike in some similar situations, you really are ahead of nothing

You could rep a lot of strength by raising the flop, but you will be playing for stacks and this looks horribly like a weak ace that won't fold

Calling to hit one of your six unclean outs isn't great either, so I think this is a fold on the flop (and turn)

Really though, I think the worst thing about this hand is pre-flop, I'm awaiting your explanation...

[bozzer]

re. reraising pf. my standard play in this situation would be to mostly just call. at the time i probably just registered the minraise as a limp and decided to punish. i don't think raising is bad though - extra ways to win the pot etc, and i generally find not giving minraises much credit is a good policy. there isn't that much difference between raising here and raising with two limpers in front (unless a minraise is a standard raise for this player). seeing the hand in terms of the dynamics of a normal RR pot is an exaggeration of the actual dynamic IMO, which is really like a 2.5bet pot.

i think just folding the flop would be fine (and very possibly best). but i think i prefer calling to raising this time, for the reasons i gave. anyone agree?

[clowntable]

Most of the times those weakish bets from a villain with those stats at this limit are:
a) A weakish Ax
b) A pair below aces that beats you (only 33 doesn't)
c) A monster that wants to get money in (note: monster in his opinion could also be TPTK). If he minraises strong hands often this is pretty likely otherwise it's less likely than a or b

Now my play depends on him being able to fold or not (usually they aren't). I either raise the flop and give up if called/RR or I simply fold on the flop. If his stack was as big as ours that changes things.

[monkeymaps]

I dont see donks getting too out of line in 3bet pots like this. What range do you put him on that you have showdown value agianst? think you are only beating like KQ and KJ think he gives up the turn with those hands. I might call the flop if stacks were deep enough to get payed off if i hit but I dont really follow your thinking on this hand.

[whyzze]

[ QUOTE ]
I might call the flop if stacks were deep enough to get payed off if i hit but I dont really follow your thinking on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed.

Anyways, 3betting a 56/10 is horrible with a low pocket pair. He is calling with all sorts of garbage and probably wont fold very often with any piece of the flop. I doubt this play is anywhere near +EV.

I call his min raise and hope some others come along and I flop a set multiway.

[WillS]

This has already been said but I thought I'd try a response for once.

I don't understand the preflop 3bet. He is way loose and only raises 10% of hands. He is def gonna call here especially after what happened in your last hand together. So the question is what is the purpose of the 3bet? He now has a short stack and raising is giving you pretty awful odds for hitting a hand where you want to play a big pot with him.

You have already seen that he's willing to donk into you and there are not many flops where you're wanting to continue if he does this. But if you had just called preflop then your implied odds for hitting your gutter would be much better. Also you make more profit with your sets.

You have 6 outs. You are not getting implied odds for which this hand is worth continuing. The only reason to continue is to pull of a bluff at this point and after what happened last hand he is much less likely to be folding here. So I don't really get any of the thinking here.

[HoldEmNewby]

in a 3bet pot an ace comes down and we get donked into, i'd be quick to pitch it the first time around. Make a note and next time around when you have an Ace or a hand with showdown value (44 never has showdown value unless it sets up so we can't continue) play accordingly. Flop is fold or pop and i'd rather fold; if we raise and get called we're drawing to 6 outs and I don't think our FE is very high against Ax, KK-TT type hands to warrant putting more money in this pot.