Is this an instacall for you? (WSOP ME big draw) - Page 2

Todd Terry · #11 07-25-2007, 02:28 PM

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Can anyone try and figure out what the huge overbet all in means? He can comfortably raise a sizable amount. I was shocked when he moved all in. Very visably.

BTW, how much does your opinion change if I had AJhh?

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He's out of position, assuming he's not making a moronic push with a set or overpair, the push means he has a huge draw, either a pair and a flush draw, 2 overs with the nut flush draw, open ended str8 flush draw, or flush draw with an inside straight draw. Playing huge draws OOP is a pain in the ass, and overshoving may be the best way to play them.

Given the very real possibility that he's drawing to a bigger flush than you (or since you've never seen him before, that he has a set), you have to fold. Against a pair and the nut flush draw (which if I had to pick one hand that he has, that would be it), you're in serious trouble.

AhJh is much more interesting. I think it wouldn't have happened, because my money is on him having the Ah here. Against a random opponent, I'd probably fold because I'd be worried that my overs were not outs, but I'm really not sure what I would do.

Ansky · #12 07-25-2007, 02:39 PM

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dump it

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you still have 227k on Day 4

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this really has nothing to do with it for me, but fold.

Yuv · #13 07-25-2007, 02:43 PM

Funny. The initial responses I got were that I should have called. I feel better now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ansky · #14 07-25-2007, 02:46 PM

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Funny. The initial responses I got were that I should have called. I feel better now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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i honestly can't beleive you saying that matt and gobbo were telling you call. This is such a clear fold its unreal to me that good players are saying call.

[censored], we don't even have our best case scenario except for VERY rare times. (tt is possible... but so are bigger pairs, and biggers flush draws are reallllllly likely).

illini43 · #15 07-25-2007, 02:52 PM

I can't see what you are ahead of that would make this move besides something like 8h9h.

I haven't played in any tournaments 1/500th of this buy-in before, but I think this is a very easy fold.

I play preflop and the flop the same way too.

Bakes · #16 07-25-2007, 02:52 PM

yea this seems to be a pretty standard fold. wtf check behind on flop? how results oriented can you get...

Yuv · #17 07-25-2007, 02:54 PM

What If he raises to 70k? Do you guys fold, shove, call? I had a lot of problem dealing with big draws deep stacked, when facing resistence. Online you just jam it cause you're always priced in. Here this wasn't the case.

#18 07-25-2007, 02:55 PM

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It's the nut flush draw or a nervous older guy with a huge hand. Either one is very bad for you.

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My initial reaction when Yuv first told me the hand was to call, but after further analysis, I really agree with the above statement here. Even if we learned later that he wasn't a "nervous old guy," you still have to run with whatever read you did have at the time, which wasn't much at all.

A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might be good enough to get me towards a call because we're never killed by another FD, we occasionally kill another FD, and our A is more likely to be an out when we're up against a big pair.

Just to confirm something, we'd rather call with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] than K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], right?

Yuv · #19 07-25-2007, 02:56 PM

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yea this seems to be a pretty standard fold. wtf check behind on flop? how results oriented can you get...

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hmm, very result oriented. That's why I said "following what happened, I should have checked behind". If I thought he c/r me all in X% of the time, checking behind might not be that bad. Obviously that didn't seem very likely.

Alright, since it seem to be established as an easy fold, I tanked for a bit and folded. He showed me the As. The way he flipped it over (seemingly uncaring to which card it was) makes me feel very confident that he had AA.

#20 07-25-2007, 02:57 PM

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What If he raises to 70k? Do you guys fold, shove, call? I had a lot of problem dealing with big draws deep stacked, when facing resistence. Online you just jam it cause you're always priced in. Here this wasn't the case.

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We're hardly deep-stacked...

edit: Anyway, I'm jamming in that spot 100% of the time, and I don't really think that's close.