Dealers commenting about my play.

[budblown]

[ QUOTE ]
Imagine now that the same guy said the same thing in the same context. Only this time, instead of sitting in the box, wearing a white shirt, he's sitting in 4-seat, wearing casual clothes.

In every case mentioned in this thread, the comment in that context is so innocuous that it is unworthy of a post. It is forgotten in a second.

Yes, I think the dealers should be held to a higher standard. But these are some of the most harmless comments I've ever heard, and you guys want the dealers taken out and shot for them.

[ QUOTE ]
A new player sits down at the table and asks the dealer "how's he been playing" referring to me as I was the big stack. Dealer replies with "He's been playing everyone like a fiddle". At that point everyone at the table looks at me for about 3 seconds (but it felt like 5 minutes) and all I can do is smile while inside I wanted to punch the dealer right in his mouth. Of course after that comment everyone started to get super aggro with me and I had to change my play a little bit, but my point is no one would have noticed anything if the dealer hadn't said anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer did not bring it up, he was asked a question. Tell me, how should he have answered it?

A. "He's a very good player, that's how he got all those chips."

B. "He's a fish, he can't play a lick."

c. "I hadn't noticed."

d. "No comment, sir. There's nothing I can say at this point that won't spark a thread on 2+2."

Do you think that any of these replies, or any other you can think of, would NOT have led all the other players to suddenly notice you?????????

I just finished reading a book by Penn Jillette, where a full-time card cheat talks about his experiences, and this thread reminds me of a great line from that book:

"Poker attracts [censored] up people. Or poker [censored] people up."

You guys are so paranoid and self-centered, and so looking for a scapegoat.

Yes, it would be a better world if the dealers could keep their mouths shut. I don't say two words when I'm in the box that aren't designed to keep the game moving. But let's keep a little perspective, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure the dealer did not bring it up but when the new player is a local and friends with the dealer it becomes a slight problem because now the dealer has affected my potential action. Obviously people knew I was the big stack-they can see my chips, thats not the point - the dealer had been very observant on to how I was playing and when the new player (who did know the dealer as they ended up chatting the entire time at the table) asked him how I was playing he gave him and the rest of the table free information that I would not want disclosed. The rest of the table was under the impression that I was just some luckbox until the fiddle comment.

Had the dealer been another player who answered the question this would be a completely different situation.

Some answers the dealer could have said, "I don't know" "I haven't been here the whole time" or a simple shrug. I didn't make a big scene because I'm confident in my abilities but the dealer was still in the wrong in revealing anything about how I had been playing. I can't see how you can justify that it is ok.

Also, what if it was the other way around and I had been donking off a ton of chips and the new player asks the dealer the same question and the dealer replies with "he's playing garbage and is a total donk" Would that then be ok also? And, do you really think a competent dealer would ever say that?

[youtalkfunny]

Let me be clear: No, the dealer shouldn't say anything, because the player will invariably get upset.

My whole point is, the player should not get upset, if the same words spoken by someone else would not upset them.

I'll go so far as to say that such a double standard is prejudicial. You've got to be prejudiced against dealers if you're going to take offense to any comment that they would make, that would not offend you if spoken by someone else.


[ QUOTE ]
Had the dealer been another player who answered the question this would be a completely different situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS is the part that bothers me!

The Doctor in Seat 3 can say it.
The Baker in Seat 7 can say it.
The Mechanic in Seat 9 can say it.

But if the Dealer says it, you have a problem with it. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I understand that it happens--I just don't understand why it does.

If you said, "Dealers should not say offensive things to guests," I would agree 100%. If you said that offensive things sound more offensive when spoken by an employee, I'd agree with that, as well, since you expect an employee to be cordial and friendly, while you do not hold other guests to that same lofty expectation.

But suggesting that otherwise benign words become malignant when spoken by the employee, that concept just escapes me.

Some places have a house rule that says when a dealer is playing in a game, he can't check-raise. This rule is put into place because people have a problem when they get check-raised by a dealer.

Again, a truck driver or a beautician can check-raise, and everybody shrugs. When a dealer does it, it's a capital offense. I don't get it.

If you think my "prejudiced" line of thinking is wacko, then give me a better explanation for this phenomenon.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, what if it was the other way around and I had been donking off a ton of chips and the new player asks the dealer the same question and the dealer replies with "he's playing garbage and is a total donk" Would that then be ok also? And, do you really think a competent dealer would ever say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, those comments would be offensive if ANYONE said them, so they're not a good example. If the Butcher or the Salesman said them, they would be just as contemptible.

My issue is with people who have a the mindset that a dealer can do no right, and when a dealer does something that is acceptable when done by someone else, it's somehow "different".

[steamraise]

[ QUOTE ]
THIS is the part that bothers me!

The Doctor in Seat 3 can say it.
The Baker in Seat 7 can say it.
The Mechanic in Seat 9 can say it.

But if the Dealer says it, you have a problem with it. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't see the difference I'm gonna agree with TT,

[ QUOTE ]
then you might have the wrong career.

[/ QUOTE ]

The players can critisize the players/comment on play.
"I thought you had aces."
"You should have bet the turn."
"I knew you were on a draw, you have a tell."
"You haven't played a hand in two hours."

It's not proper for the dealer.

[Mason Hellmuth]

[ QUOTE ]
you might have the wrong career.

[/ QUOTE ]

[budblown]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me be clear: No, the dealer shouldn't say anything, because the player will invariably get upset.

My whole point is, the player should not get upset, if the same words spoken by someone else would not upset them.

I'll go so far as to say that such a double standard is prejudicial. You've got to be prejudiced against dealers if you're going to take offense to any comment that they would make, that would not offend you if spoken by someone else.


[ QUOTE ]
Had the dealer been another player who answered the question this would be a completely different situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

THIS is the part that bothers me!

The Doctor in Seat 3 can say it.
The Baker in Seat 7 can say it.
The Mechanic in Seat 9 can say it.

But if the Dealer says it, you have a problem with it. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I understand that it happens--I just don't understand why it does.

If you said, "Dealers should not say offensive things to guests," I would agree 100%. If you said that offensive things sound more offensive when spoken by an employee, I'd agree with that, as well, since you expect an employee to be cordial and friendly, while you do not hold other guests to that same lofty expectation.

But suggesting that otherwise benign words become malignant when spoken by the employee, that concept just escapes me.

Some places have a house rule that says when a dealer is playing in a game, he can't check-raise. This rule is put into place because people have a problem when they get check-raised by a dealer.

Again, a truck driver or a beautician can check-raise, and everybody shrugs. When a dealer does it, it's a capital offense. I don't get it.

If you think my "prejudiced" line of thinking is wacko, then give me a better explanation for this phenomenon.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, what if it was the other way around and I had been donking off a ton of chips and the new player asks the dealer the same question and the dealer replies with "he's playing garbage and is a total donk" Would that then be ok also? And, do you really think a competent dealer would ever say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, those comments would be offensive if ANYONE said them, so they're not a good example. If the Butcher or the Salesman said them, they would be just as contemptible.

My issue is with people who have a the mindset that a dealer can do no right, and when a dealer does something that is acceptable when done by someone else, it's somehow "different".

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not a double standard because dealing is their job. The dealer is there working, while the Dr., The Baker and the Dope Dealer are customers of the dealer and casino, their job titles are irrelevant. I do see what point you are trying to make with the "prejudiced" line, and no I don't think you are whacko. If the dealer wasn't dealing but was playing in the game, there would not be an issue. But since the dealer is dealing and not playing I believe that it is a very big issue in that it might compromise the integrity of the game (especially when the dealer and the new player know each other and are friends).

Now, if the dealer were to break down how every player had been playing and that was a house rule that he must tell every new player how everyone else played then there wouldn't be an issue. (Obviously this is far fetched but that would then be the only way to be fair to everyone - whereas I am the only one on the short end of the stick in this situation)

[Mr Rick]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me be clear: No, the dealer shouldn't say anything, because the player will invariably get upset.

My whole point is, the player should not get upset, if the same words spoken by someone else would not upset them.


[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be pleased no matter who said them. I would complain to a dealer because the dealer should know better and will likely stop doing it. If a player said it, I would only be throwing fuel on a fire that was about to go out.
[ QUOTE ]

I'll go so far as to say that such a double standard is prejudicial. You've got to be prejudiced against dealers if you're going to take offense to any comment that they would make, that would not offend you if spoken by someone else.

Had the dealer been another player who answered the question this would be a completely different situation.

THIS is the part that bothers me!

The Doctor in Seat 3 can say it.
The Baker in Seat 7 can say it.
The Mechanic in Seat 9 can say it.

But if the Dealer says it, you have a problem with it. That just doesn't make any sense to me. I understand that it happens--I just don't understand why it does.

If you said, "Dealers should not say offensive things to guests," I would agree 100%. If you said that offensive things sound more offensive when spoken by an employee, I'd agree with that, as well, since you expect an employee to be cordial and friendly, while you do not hold other guests to that same lofty expectation.

But suggesting that otherwise benign words become malignant when spoken by the employee, that concept just escapes me.

Some places have a house rule that says when a dealer is playing in a game, he can't check-raise. This rule is put into place because people have a problem when they get check-raised by a dealer.

Again, a truck driver or a beautician can check-raise, and everybody shrugs. When a dealer does it, it's a capital offense. I don't get it.


If you think my "prejudiced" line of thinking is wacko, then give me a better explanation for this phenomenon.


[/ QUOTE ]
When a dealer check/raises and a customer knows its a dealer they may transfer some of the pain from losing the hand onto the casino itself and decide never to bring their business there again. That is probably why casinos would implement such an awful rule. Players believe crazy things. I'm sure you've been blamed for dealing someone a bad beat.


[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Also, what if it was the other way around and I had been donking off a ton of chips and the new player asks the dealer the same question and the dealer replies with "he's playing garbage and is a total donk" Would that then be ok also? And, do you really think a competent dealer would ever say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, those comments would be offensive if ANYONE said them, so they're not a good example. If the Butcher or the Salesman said them, they would be just as contemptible.

My issue is with people who have a the mindset that a dealer can do no right, and when a dealer does something that is acceptable when done by someone else, it's somehow "different".

[/ QUOTE ]
Dealers for better or worse represent the casino they work in. So they must be held to a higher standard. They will be held to the rules of the casino whereas players may or may not be held to those same rules. Also, they are professionals. Card players rarely are.

Finally, what a dealer says may influence other players more than what another player might say. People may wrongly assume that because a dealer has seen so many hands and/or especially so many hands that a particular player has played that he/she has a valid point of view. Couple that with the fact that a dealer is obstensibly a neutral party.

[SmokeyRidesAgain]

[ QUOTE ]
prejudiced against dealers

[/ QUOTE ]
I [censored] LOLED

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't see the difference I'm gonna agree with TT,

[ QUOTE ]
then you might have the wrong career.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

to clarify I was saying that in jest, it wasn't intended to be a diss at youtalkfunny or for it to be used to call him out for his opinion. I hope he knew that already, if not he will surely know it now.

[bav]

Random little comments from the dealers doing the "play at home" game don't disturb me when I'm doing 4/8 or NL1/2. Long as what he is saying is the same sorta thing that a player could say and not disturb me, I don't generally mind the dealer doing it, at least when the table is kinda noisy the same way. I don't dreadfully mind a player saying "straight?" as I start to table a hand, and I don't mind the dealer doing it now and then (much...I'd prefer they both be quiet, but whatever).

As the stakes rise, I expect the dealer to get quieter. Be more careful at 6/12 and NL2/5. Become a church mouse at 15/30, NL5/10 and beyond (unless you have a solid read on the table and are positive EVERY player there is a-ok with you joining in).

As for what the dealer should say in response to specific, pointed questions about players at the table? OF COURSE he shouldn't answer with anything useful. That's a "duh". Come up with whatever non-answer answer you want, just do not start spouting "he's classic TAG but shows some weak tight tendancies, plays about 20% of flops, usually comes in for a raise to $12 but if he makes it $20 watch out 'cause he's only done that so far with AA and KK". I recommend "I've been here less than 30 minutes so I haven't really seen much."

Yes, the dealer needs to be aware he isn't a player and can't say EXACTLY the same things all the time without potentially annoying people. Read the table and know when everybody is smiling and laughing and recognize when there's some grumpy nit who's stuck 3 buy-ins and is looking to blame someone for it. It may not be fair, but it is necessary for your long term job longevity and job satisfaction. When I see a female player at the table with a kitty cat card protector that she's playing with, I may be able to get away with making a comment about her petting her pussy (I may get slapped for it, at worst)...the dealer can NEVER EVER say that.

Let's lighten the mood:

My last faux pas at the poker table was after ordering Ballys+Coffee as did the guy to my right. They showed up and I had a tower of whipped cream and he had just a little. I said "I got more whipped cream--she likes me better." He says "that's ok, whipped cream isn't very masculine." I quip "there's nothing manlier than a whipped cream mustache." And the chick to me left about fell out of her chair. She glares at me and then smiles and says "I only caught the tail end of that conversation, but I was about to hit you...now I see you have a drink with whipped cream." Her BF to her left had a HUGE grin on his face.

I still haven't figured out why that comment bothered her. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
"The dealer told me that he thinks my wife is the ugliest woman he's ever seen."
"After the hand was over, the dealer said he thought I had AA."

I think a dealer should get fired for the first quote.

A lot of people in this thread think he should be shot for the second one.


[/ QUOTE ]

What if the dealer is correct in the first quote but wrong in the 2nd? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

When I'm in Oklahoma a lot of the regular dealers also play in our 2/5 game. I don't mind any comment from them when they are my oponnent but expect less observations while they are dealing. That said the "Like a fiddle" comment was hilarious and I would have enjoyed having a dealer make that response to the question proffered.

Jimbo