Preflop with a poster. Theory and Practice

[Oink]

How do you guys react to a poster preflop. Obviously loosen up and open more hands and 3-bet players who are aware of that more often.

But how much exactly?

At this table the 3 players behind me were German 22/19 TAG fish and a bad but not too loose BB. What would you guys raise in the HJ?

Hoping to get responses as this is something I think about a lot.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Oink is UTG+1 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#cc0000">Oink raises</font>...

[secretprankster]

Against an UTG poster (lol), I might loosen up just a little. Honestly this situation happens so rarely it's probably not worth thinking about. Raising 56o next to act is pure spew though.

Re: a HJ poster who checks and I'm on the button, there used to be lots of threads in the full ring forums advocating raising any two, and when I played ring I did and I believe it was profitable over my duration. At 6-max, especially today, raising any two is probably not profitable since people overdefend and never fold. But, just as a guess, I'd venture to say I'd raise around 75-80% of my hands there, only folding the complete trash (this assumes reasonable blinds).

[yourface]

pretty much I just treat a poster like someone limping a very weak hand. I'll loosen up my isolating range because the poster will almost never have a good hand, but I don't do anything crazy.

isolating from the HJ with 56o is just horrible. you're not even +EV vs a random junk hand and you're giving up a ton of equity to the players behind you and the guy in the BB.

[Oink]

Yeah I wasnt thinking specifically on that HJ spot.

I have been raising almost any2 OTB when there is a poster and its folded to me. If that is correct EV wise my range in the HJ should be pretty wide as well with 3 non-observant TAGs behind me...

Maybe this one should be in the Poker Theory forum.

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
pretty much I just treat a poster like someone limping a very weak hand. I'll loosen up my isolating range because the poster will almost never have a good hand, but I don't do anything crazy.

isolating from the HJ with 56o is just horrible. you're not even +EV vs a random junk hand and you're giving up a ton of equity to the players behind you and the guy in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, recognize that other people like to iso posters lightly (especially if they payed dead blind button as well), so be ready to 3-bet marginally OTB/SB

[yourface]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, recognize that other people like to iso posters lightly (especially if they payed dead blind button as well), so be ready to 3-bet marginally OTB/SB

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a more interesting question imo

how much do you loosen up your button and sb 3betting ranges when you suspect an aggressive player is isolating light?

I can't really think of a solid range since this situation happens so infrequently, but I would imagine that reraising hands like A8o A5s JQs JKo could be good.

usually the kind of player who posts from out of the blinds isn't the kind of player to fold for 2 more though.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
isolating from the HJ with 56o is just horrible. you're not even +EV vs a random junk hand and you're giving up a ton of equity to the players behind you and the guy in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when I open raise UTG or in the HJ I pick up the pot without a flop with 21% probability.

On top of that I win the pot with a flop but without a SD with 22% probability.

Now I dont know how often it will happen with a poster but that is a lot of money to be made if you pick up 2.5 SBs without a flop and 3.5-5.5 SBs without a SD.

Say those probs are only around 15% and 15%. Then the immediate profit from stealing the pot is

0.15*2.5 + 0.15*4.5 = 1SB

I need to screw up a lot postflop the times I dont pick up the pot to loose that (average) SB.

I am not saying the 65o raise was good. But since a lot of our winnings comes from picking up pots without SDs the extra SB from the poster really matters a lot.

[yourface]

should be 0.15*2.5 + 0.15*(1-0.15)*4.5 but w/e. those numbers are pretty phoney anyways. the poster is usually never folding for one more, people are more likely to play when there is more money in the pot, etc

what I was trying to say is that when someone behind you or in the blinds has a playable hand you end up putting a lot of money in preflop at a big equity disadvantage with a hand like 56o. this is even more of a concern when you're in EP there is a greater chance that someone else has a playable hand.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
should be 0.15*2.5 + 0.15*(1-0.15)*4.5 but w/e. those numbers are pretty phoney anyways. the poster is usually never folding for one more, people are more likely to play when there is more money in the pot, etc


[/ QUOTE ]

No no the percentages for events I found in PT are mutually exclusive. 20% prob of no flop and 20% prob of a flop AND Hero winning without SD. So usually from ep I pick up the pot without a SD with 40% prob.

But Yeah the poster isnt folding much preflop. On the other hand I will get it HU vs him a lot with position so I will likely pick up the pot a lot on the flop or turn with c-bets.

Meh I am rambling. It doesnt belong in this forum anyways and it wont affect my winrate much. I just hate when there is poker stuff I keep thinking about and cant figure out.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Maybe this one should be in the Poker Theory forum.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but you wanted thoughtful responses right? That forum is terrible. There's the odd gem of course. Anyway...

I think treating it as a very loose limper in the pot is perfect for the EP poster.

Things are a bit different when there's a late position poster behind you. There are then two conflicting ideas: money in the pot from a random hand says steal more; but the fact that he'll rarely muck says play tighter since you'll be out of position for sure. So I think in that case just playing your usual preflop standards might be okay.

Guy.