Sklansky's Hand (Two black hooks)

[veganmav]

Opponent knows me relatively well, he is 29/19/1.8 Wtsd 37

$50/$100
5 players


Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO 3-bets</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.6SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.8BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.8BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>

Preflop, I am mixing it up, as to not be transparent, since we play together a decent amount, and so he might call down with AK or a smaller pocket pair, when he otherwise wouldn't have.

I donk the river to gain a bet from nonpaired aces and any smaller pocket pairs. Also, I think he will rarely raise any queen, and will often not raise KK and AA.

I donk the river and my plan was to fold to a raise.
My only fear is that this play might be too transparent, and he might bluff raise with AK, but I have to think, that he thinks I am calling a raise, don't I?

Is bet/folding this river bad?
Is Bet calling worse?
Is check calling better?

Please rank the 3 Bet folding, Bet calling, and Check calling.
Also what do you think of my non-cap preflop?

And any other comments are welcome.

[Victor]

your bet only collects value vs ace high since all other pairs would bet anyway.

[veganmav]

[ QUOTE ]
your bet only collects value vs ace high since all other pairs would bet anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you overestimate the frequency which 77 bets here.

Oh yeah, i also claim credit for being the first one to ever use the term "sklansky's hand" in a strategy conversation

[donger]

You don't think most good, aggressive players will value bet any pair here? You're really under-represented your hand.

Edit: along those lines, couldn't he raise with a hand you're beating here too? Your line looks like it could easily be 66 instead of JJ and he could be raising thin with a hand like TT.

[dangerfish]

I agree all pairs are betting in this spot. Your hand looks like AK, AJ, A 10. I would also expect to get raised by better hands when you donk bet this river.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]

I donk the river to gain a bet from nonpaired aces and any smaller pocket pairs. Also, I think he will rarely raise any queen, and will often not raise KK and AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this villian a decent hand reader (his stats and his playing 50/100 seemed to imply that he is)? If so, I think this statement has to be wrong. He has to know that you don't have an eight since you raised UTG and peeled a 3Q5 flop. You don't peel here with any hand that has an 8 that gets raised UTG do you? Therefore, your river bet on the paired eight shouldn't really change anything that he would raise since it smells so much like bullsh!t. AA KK or AQ should have a pretty easy raise if he is thinking about your range.

I don't think he bluff raises enough to call a raise but I agree with others that he is usually betting pairs although I don't know how many he can have that you beat since he 3 bet before the flop and there are two eights up. That leaves TT, 99, and maybe 77/66 although I don't know if he 3 bets those.

[marching_on_together]

Don't like it against a good handreader, it should be clear to him your holding is relatively weak. You might not cap PF with AA, KK, QQ but your sure as hell playing them harder post flop, Same goes for AQ. You clearly don't have an 8 so that leaves lower pairs and KQ, QJ and Q10s. I doubt you would fold a Q but often this donk on the end is a lower pair which will bet fold. If i was villian I would strongly consider raising any pair against you that I had bet the turn with thinking that you would fold a better hand enough to make a profit.

Your donk on the river screams weakness and gives villian too much info. That makes bet fold here a dangerous play.

[Buffsta8]

Well... I am villian in this hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think the river bet is poor cause I don't think you had any intention of bet/folding and I would have raised with any Q and KK and AA. If I thought about the hand a bit more and because of player knowledge I think I could have found a fold here if I was playing well. You would never make this move with AJ or AT and you would probably crying call with AK. I could have reasonably put you on 99-JJ or 66. If checked to I would have bet my hand to try and take ace high to value town [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
ps I probably would have paid off a river c/r too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Victor]

fwiw, i take this line often enough, just not against smart and aggro players.

[veganmav]

Can someone reccomend a better line? (asuming i played preflop the way i did)

and no one likes the title? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]