Razz Hand at $50,000 HORSE - Matusow vs. Tomko

[kerze]

$20,000k/$40,000k limit $5,000 bring in (antes presumably $5,000 as well because after Matusow calls the bring in there is $50,000 in the pot minus the two bring ins gives $40,000/8 = $5,000)

Espn doesn't bother to show the upcards on 3rd of the bring-in or the folders

Matusow starts with (A5)8 and calls the bring in
Tomko completes (64)3
Pescatori calls with (A7)5
Matusow calls

On 4th
Matusow has (a5)82
Tomko has (64)38
Pescatori has (a7)57

Pescatori checks
Matusow bets $20,000
Tomko calls
Pecatori folds

On 5th
Matusow has (A5)82A
Tomko has (64)389

Matusow bets $40,000
Dewey says that "I haven't seen any aces out Mike" and calls

6th street:
Matusow (A5)82AJ
Tomko (64)3893

Matusow checks
Dewey thinks and then Negreanu makes a comment abou the amount of time Dewey is taking and then Dewey says you can see why I'm taking so much time - i'm pretty sure he has a pair of aces and i'm trying to decide whether to bet or not and then checks (at this point Dewey didn't have a lot of money behind)

Matusow Rivers a T for a T low and Tomko doesn't need to improve from his 9 low and pairs his 3.

It goes check/check and Dewey wins.

Mike thens says By the Way, there were two aces on the board but I still caught the other two. Tomko says I just felt that you had an ace; how can you start with an eight if you don't have an ace in your hand.


Matusow says there were 2 aces on the board besides his - well considering that Pescatori had one in his down cards (that we saw when he looked at them). He seems sincere saying this.

Tomko says how can you with an 8 and no ace. Couldn't Mike have 23 or 24 and call. Of course then Mike would have paired 4th and not bet. So the only wheel hand Mike could have without pairing was 34.

[jbrennen]

[ QUOTE ]
Tomko says I just felt that you had an ace; how can you start with an eight if you don't have an ace in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, I think that's more applicable to deuce-seven lowball draw games than to Razz (in full ring 2-7 triple draw, if you don't have a deuce, you're weak). In Razz, it's tough for me to imagine a situation where I'd play (3-4)-8 differently than (A-4)-8 simply because my lowest card is two ranks higher. I could play them differently depending on how live my draw is (how many other Aces or 3s are visible).

[SGspecial]

Matusow should have c/r'd 5th, ldo

[Andy B]

I'll admit that I don't know that much about the guy, but I don't see any compelling reason that Matusow needs an Ace or two wheel cards to limp and call a completion on third.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit that I don't know that much about the guy, but I don't see any compelling reason that Matusow needs an Ace or two wheel cards to limp and call a completion on third.

[/ QUOTE ]
He limped in first, then he called a raise (completion) against two opponents while he had an 8 in the door. At this level in a tournament he should have folded. Ergo, you put him on an Ace with a wheel card. And he should have check/raised 5th.

[RustyBrooks]

Yeah, but he's Mike Matusow.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but he's Mike Matusow.

[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot Dewey was short-stacked, so he wasn't going to bet if Mike checked, anyway. Except for not folding 3rd, I can't fault him.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit that I don't know that much about the guy, but I don't see any compelling reason that Matusow needs an Ace or two wheel cards to limp and call a completion on third.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think it's a very reasonable surmise that Matusow needs 8ww to limp here.

We don't know the board he limped into but presumably it was a scary board, otherwise he should have just open-completed.

My style is to never open-limp here but if I did I would definitely need an 8ww with favorable exposed cards.

Incidentally Max is making a big mistake not reraising 3rd unless his hand is quite ill-favored by the exposed cards. (And even then seems like he should just fold.)

[Andy B]

If a guy limps in with an Eight in the door and then calls a completion, there is an excellent chance that he doesn't have a very good understanding of razz, and he doesn't have a very good understanding of tournament poker in general. Third is almost certainly a raise-or-fold situation. Given this, I don't really think that it's possible to put him on such a narrow range. Perhaps (A5)8 is more likely than (27)8, but can we really eliminate the latter? I didn't watch the broadcast, nor am I likely to, but did they show other hands where Matusow was dumping rough Eights on third street? When someone does something that really doesn't make sense, I'm reluctant to put him on such a narrow range.

[kerze]

Andy that was the only razz hand that they showed Mike play.