Discourteous, Unethical or OK

[bav]

Players who fold from early position strengthen the power of the last guy to act. The fewer people he has to worry about check raising him, the more liberal he can be with an attempt to steal. Take it to the extreme, with 10 people seeing the river, and 8 of them fold, cutoff checks, and now button has one opponent to worry about instead of 9--think the button is going to feel it's a lot safer to try to steal?

As the size of the contested pot grows and the number of players in the pot shrinks, so goes the impact. You folding first with $12 in the pot and 6 players in is of negligible impact. You folding first with 3 players in and $1200 in the pot isn't so keen.

It's not unethical unless you're intending to benefit one particular player. I look at it as mildly discourteous to do when the pot is of appreciable size. You're basically telling the other players you're unwilling to do them the favor of just checking and sitting quietly in the hand with your cards for another 15 seconds. You'd rather check out and go back to giving your attention to whatever else is more important.

I've never bitched about someone doing this. But I've seen people get bitched at for doing it. And heard players explain exactly how it impacted the play ("why yes, you doing that DID free me to bet the river--I had already put this guy on two pair, but I was afraid you had hit the flush on the river so I couldn't bet the river with you still in the hand.")

[PantsOnFire]

First, I would consider that there is a very real difference doing this in a cash game vs. a tourney. In a cash game, if I am not in a hand, I really don't care what the involved players are doing. And frankly, these sorts of actions give me information.

In a tourney, everybody at the table has a vested interest in the outcome of every hand so I think it would be dealt with more quickly.

In your example at a cash game, it wouldn't bother me. If you do it out of turn, you should get warned to act only when it is your turn. As with most of these cases, repeated violations can be dealt with accordingly.

[ijustliketoplay]

totally ok. its your turn and your action. there is no situation in which this is unethical (providing it is not collusion). the pot size doesnt matter - you wanna give up, give up

[Keys Myaths]

[ QUOTE ]
there is no situation in which this is unethical (providing it is not collusion).

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. Please read the rest of the thread.

[matt85]

IMO I think generally speaking it would just be discourteous.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
you are giving ALL the players still in the hand the same information, at the same time - before any of them have had to act.

[/ QUOTE ]Wow. You don't understand position.

To those saying it's not against the rules, I'm not so sure... at least not everywhere. I've been told twice by floormen that if there is no bet to you, your only "official" choices are to check or bet.

As Bav said, as the size of the pot grows and the number of people in the pot shrinks, open-folding becomes more discourteous (and more dumb).

[KenProspero]

Ok, here's the entire situation

4/8 at Canterbury

-- In this hand I had the button and folded pre-flop. SB checked and BB mucked on the river (that's why I didn't give any card information, I didn't have it).

After BB throws his cards in, the Dealer says: "If you do that again, I'm going to have to call the floor over." BB asks why and dealer says that he's giving information to the players acting after him that the players before him didn't have. We all then moved on to the next hand.

I had never heard of this as a "rule" before, so I decided to run it down here.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're first to act. Can you just muck your hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

A better course of action would be to hold on to your hand, wait for someone else to bet, and then when the action gets back around to you ...

Stare at the bettor for about 3 minutes. Try to look into his soul.

Then look at your cards. Hem and Haw a little bit. Then stare at him again. Pick up your cards as if to fold them, pull back and look at your cards again, then look at your chips. Put your cards down. Stare at the bettor. Then in very, very slow motion... muck your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Sweet]

It is VERY rude. Please don't do this. Please wait until the action is complete. Thanks.

[AZplayer]

Definitely not OK, especially in NL, and especially in jackpot games if that applies.

Still would prefer ir doesn't happen in limit, but it can also void jackpots if applicable. The problem is some people will say "But there was no jackpot possible on that hand" and the counterargument is that some of these people get into the habit of folding on the flop or out of turn anyway and it only takes one time to mess it up.

In NL, it changes the outcome of the hand because if I only have to face 3 players instead of 4 (and one of them NOT in the blinds mucks) that makes my bet-sizing different and likelihood for stabbing at the pot increase.

Nitscale: 100%