Ways to Defeat the Live Straddle

HobbyHorse · #1 10-01-2007, 08:22 PM

The question is simple: is there a way to counter the straddle if you're a fairly tight player?

Ex. In a $2-5 live full ring game, you are the big blind and the UTG always straddles for $15-20. My solution would be to raise the straddler - but the problem I face is always that at least 3-4+ also enter the pot in addition to the straddler. So what amount could I raise it to thin the field - a pot sized bet?

And how could I induce the straddler to stop the straddle for the next rounds without making myself go broke by reraising the straddler a couple of times in a row? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Carolina Pirate · #2 10-01-2007, 09:11 PM

you can't. we straddle b/c we want action and monster pots. if a straddler gets lucky he's stacked and pushes around for the rest of the night. unless you have a monster stack and go allin and he has nothing...and i mean nothing there is nothing you can do except move tables

runout_mick · #3 10-01-2007, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but the problem I face is always that at least 3-4+ also enter the pot in addition to the straddler.

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You should really try to learn why this is the opposite of a problem. Especially if you are a tight player.

HobbyHorse · #4 10-01-2007, 10:31 PM

It's a problem because I don't want to keep losing my blinds????

I know what you're implying but it's actually more frustrating to me to be the only one who ever has to deal with a stradler at this particular place because they know that I am a fairly tight player...I just would like to be able to limp into a pot once and a while when I am the the BB...and I never seem to get any quality hands when I am the BB so all I do is fold against the straddler...

ShipitFMA · #5 10-01-2007, 11:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's a problem because I don't want to keep losing my blinds????

I know what you're implying but it's actually more frustrating to me to be the only one who ever has to deal with a stradler at this particular place because they know that I am a fairly tight player...I just would like to be able to limp into a pot once and a while when I am the the BB...and I never seem to get any quality hands when I am the BB so all I do is fold against the straddler...

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If you pick up a decent hand to raise from your BB once every 20 orbits you will surely make money + more back.
If you're tight, i'd be happy there is an inflated pot when it gets to you.

Keep in mind the people treating calling 3-4x BB as just a normal PF limp.

This is good for you

Lego05 · #6 10-02-2007, 04:36 AM

This isn't a problem. This is a very juicy table.

Sure you're gonna lose your BB a lot, but who cares...you'd lose that a lot anyway. You've got the potential to win some huge pots here.

GeeBeeQED · #7 10-02-2007, 08:05 AM

HobbyHorse, I consider this a more advanced question. I hated straddles just like you. It was starting to get under my skin and tilt my play a bit. I decided I'd work on this problem and through some trial and error I arrived at a strategey that I've employed strictly for about 2 years now with good results. Essentially what you want to do is attack the straddler and take the play away from him.

My enviroment was a regular group of about 50 players. I was thought of in that group (I've moved on to bigger games now) as a fairly solid player, not loose for certain.

Regardless of the straddlers position relative to me, as long as the pot has not been raised in front of me, if I look down and find A-10 or better (AJ,AQ,AK) or a pair of 10s or better, I raise the BB 15X. So, in my 1-2 game I make it $30 to go. I've made a commitment plan also. That is if I am reraised by the straddler, I'm calling (even all in) with every hand but A10 and AJ

To top off my sick little strategy pie, from the very begginning this was an experiment in psycology at the table. I announced at the table many times over that couple years that if they straddle against me how I would play it and that I will always show the hand after everybody folds or the end of the hand. I never bluff here and I always show the hand. The results were very interesting in my group. I found it actually increased the number of straddles that were put against me. However, occasionally I'll pick up one of my qualifying hands and I picked up the straddlers money and many callers money often enough that it's shown a profit. Do I get called? Very very rarely. When I do it's usually with middling junk and I've won most of those confrontations as well because I always start out ahead. The reason I think my play causes more straddles is some of the more aggressive but less thoughtful players think that since they essentially know my cards they are somehow going to get a chance to trap me for my whole stack. Now understand there is some pot odds and implied odds factors at work in this strategy. This is a 1-2 game where they can buy in for $50, I always buy in for the max, the suckers usually buy in for $100. Most of the players have between $100 and $200 in front of them. I've bet $30 with a known good hand, your going to try to suckout on me with what? You have to put between 1/3 and 1/6 of your stack in the pot for a shot that is probably less than 1/3 to 1/6th. If you do your probably making an implied odds mistake with most hands.

I've altered this strategy in the new game I'm playing in. All I've changed is I've never announced the strategy. I still make a 15Xbb raise and I continue to show the hand EVERYTIME. It's effective for me and I don't mind a straddle anymore, in fact I look forward to it. I consider the guys that do it ineffective most of the time. You strattle your putting your money in at random, I'm making a choice on which hands I play.

Now you might wonder, what do I do with KQ, JT, 88 or 55 or 99 or 9T (hands I'd love to see flop with) against a straddle? I tell you, I toss them in the muck. There are a few games where I'll play some of those hands against a straddle where I call only, I've got to see a couple of callers with 20x the straddle in thier stacks and most of the strattles have to go around the table unraised. Typically however where straddles are involved people are raising them. I use my strategy to not get involved with marginal hands EVER and to always take firm control of the hand when I do get involved.

One of the big reasons people straddle is to set up a bluff. (as they see it) a bunch of suckers call then they pop it $20 and everybody folds or the get it heads up, they figure they are probably facing big cards, when the flop comes they know if no big cards hit they can bet and the straddle caller will fold about 2/3 of the time. It can be a profitable play against weak opponents. However, most of the players I see using it or long term losers so I dont' consider it something I want to do very often.

In my current game where I employ this strategy short of making the anouncement it's not increased the number of straddles. I'm thinking of going to making the annoucement on occasion as the increased straddles it seems to cause is part of the juice of the game I'd like to extract.

There are some legitimate reasons to straddle, to change your table image (make it looser) or to loosen up a bunch of tight impact wrench salesmen. However most of the time I see it employed it seems like the straddler is trying to "change his luck" or just wants to set up preflop bluffs as described above.

If you choose to try out my strategy understand that I think my table image (how people think I play) is a significant factor to it's success. I'm also willing to play a big pot with them in this situation and they know it from experience with me. That is an implied threat. They look at their little A-5 donkey hand (or any small pair or any two face) they would normally raise all the callers with and say to themselves. "Hmmmm, I'll pick a better spot to take this idiot down". Meanwhile, I'm stacking their chips a great percentage of the time. Please let me know how it works for you. Give a trial time of 4 or 5 sessions before you pass judgement and don't be shy, tell them exactly how your going to play it and back it up.

Dave

Rek · #8 10-02-2007, 10:54 AM

Play like a kitten and let him take all your blinds.

If someone ALWAYS straddles can I please sit next to him.

SellingtheDrama · #9 10-02-2007, 11:08 AM

Think of it as a good incentive to not play pots out of position.

Or if you really can't stand the straddler, don't sit on his right!

Lottery Larry · #10 10-02-2007, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The question is simple: is there a way to counter the straddle if you're a fairly tight player?

Ex. In a $2-5 live full ring game, you are the big blind and the UTG always straddles for $15-20. My solution would be to raise the straddler - but the problem I face is always that at least 3-4+ also enter the pot in addition to the straddler. So what amount could I raise it to thin the field - a pot sized bet?

And how could I induce the straddler to stop the straddle for the next rounds without making myself go broke by reraising the straddler a couple of times in a row? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want to discourage ANY of this?