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#11
04-02-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
Think of the future: at some point you have to show your adversary that they just can't keep stealing your blinds and being over-aggressive with impunity - and especially that they can't keep pulling illegal angle-shots. America has been doing those things with the invasion of Iraq, which have killed many Iraqis and some Iranians , [/ QUOTE ] pot calling kettle black? 
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#12
04-02-2007, 01:31 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
yeah a country illegally holding other country's citizens without trial is [censored] up. they should be taken care of by a country who totally doesnt do this, the USA!
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#13
04-02-2007, 01:34 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
yeah a country illegally holding other country's citizens without trial is [censored] up. they should be taken care of by a country who totally doesnt do this, the USA! [/ QUOTE ] Iran aggressed illegally against Great Britain, and Great Britain should find a way to make Iran release the hostages and apologize, and should be supported in this by the U.N. Security Council and international community.
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#14
04-02-2007, 01:36 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] yeah a country illegally holding other country's citizens without trial is [censored] up. they should be taken care of by a country who totally doesnt do this, the USA! [/ QUOTE ] Iran aggressed illegally against Great Britain, and Great Britain should find a way to make Iran release the hostages and apologize, and should be supported in this by the U.N. Security Council and international community. [/ QUOTE ] What proof of this do you have? All there is is he said she said diplomatic double speak.
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#15
04-02-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] yeah a country illegally holding other country's citizens without trial is [censored] up. they should be taken care of by a country who totally doesnt do this, the USA! [/ QUOTE ] Iran aggressed illegally against Great Britain, and Great Britain should find a way to make Iran release the hostages and apologize, and should be supported in this by the U.N. Security Council and international community. [/ QUOTE ] What proof of this do you have? All there is is he said she said diplomatic double speak. [/ QUOTE ] 13 Marines and Sailors in Iranian custody is THE proof. They were taken in an "act of war" according to Irans OWN story. Usin Iran's own unbelievable story, they still committed an "act of war' and then further violations of maratime law by taking prisoner foreign Naval personell.
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#16
04-02-2007, 01:59 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
What would ou expect to happen if an Iranian ship was discovered in Iraqi waters? If a foreign vessel is in territorial waters without permission it is illegal.
Since you a priori reject Iran's side it is difficult for you to see that pehaps a mistake was made by the british. But the detention may be 100% legal depending on which side of the story you take. Bottom line is that neither of us were there and neither government would like to admit that they are lying. So how can you pick a side to believe without any shred of doubt?
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#17
04-02-2007, 02:43 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
No side is clearly "in the wrong" vis a vis the boundaries - there are no accepted territorial boundaries in that waterway and there haven't been for quite sometime. Obviously the Iranians are doing it as a show of force, the same way any state looking to show-off a little uses an ambiguous situation in its favor. The Brits were doing some operation in a waterway under dispute, Iran used the opportunity to say to the rest of the world, look we're here, we're not going away, and we'll show you. That's not to say it's not an egregious act, clearly I don't particularly like that a fairly despotic Islamic state that has shown a disregard for human rights and democracy is trying to gain appeal and prestige across the Middle East.
But to sit back and watch the UK and US claim the moral high ground after the various manifestations of the War on Terrah over the past 5 years in patently ridiculous As usual, it's not the case where you have to pick either the Great West or Iran, you simply say, you're both full of [censored] and have shown the ability to completely immoral acts in the pursuit of power.
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#18
04-02-2007, 03:25 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
Let me preface all my further responses by saying that I am a former US Naval Officer who spent over 9mos in the Persian Gulf with a significant amount of that time being spent on MIO (Maritime Interdiction Operations) primarily in hunt for Oil smugglers but also in catching other types (arms, diseased livestock, humans, e.t.c.). So, I have a fairly in depth knowledge of these types of events, the operating procedures surrounding them, and the law governing them.
[ QUOTE ] What would ou expect to happen if an Iranian ship was discovered in Iraqi waters? If a foreign vessel is in territorial waters without permission it is illegal. [/ QUOTE ] I would expect both sides to follow maratime law and basic "law of the sea." Warnings are ALWAYS issued prior to ANY hostile acts. (Taking foreign servicemen prisoner is a clearly defined "hostile act"). The Brits/US have been conducting these operations since the end of the 1st Iraq war. IOW, they have been going on for well over 10 years, in full view of The Iranian Navy. Similar encounters bewteen US/Brit forces and Iranian Naval units in these disputed waters have occurred numerous times though not routinely. When they occur the same resolution is reached almost always. The Iranians bluser with warnings on the radio. The Brit/US forces reply asserting lack of acknowledgement of Iranian "excessive claims" and both sides ALWAYS part peacefully, leaving the area and submitting reports for the respective diplomats to sort out either bilateraly or through international maratime courts. [ QUOTE ] Since you a priori reject Iran's side it is difficult for you to see that pehaps a mistake was made by the british. But the detention may be 100% legal depending on which side of the story you take. [/ QUOTE ] I don't reject the Iranian's argument. I have serious doubts about their claims but it is irrelevant given the laws and customs governing such encounters at sea, even accepting almos ALL of what Iran claims to be true, they are still OUTSIDE the law and have committd a purposeful "hosile act." [ QUOTE ] Bottom line is that neither of us were there and neither government would like to admit that they are lying. So how can you pick a side to believe without any shred of doubt? [/ QUOTE ] True. Neiter of us were there, but, as I stated above, I am intimately familiar with these types of encounters and the longstanding procedures (on both sides) for handling them. Clearly, Iran broke step with both the law and the procedures, so regardless of any personal love or hate for Iran, the wrong and wronged parties seem fairly clear here.
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#19
04-02-2007, 03:59 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
What would ou expect to happen if an Iranian ship was discovered in Iraqi waters? If a foreign vessel is in territorial waters without permission it is illegal. Since you a priori reject Iran's side it is difficult for you to see that pehaps a mistake was made by the british. But the detention may be 100% legal depending on which side of the story you take. Bottom line is that neither of us were there and neither government would like to admit that they are lying. So how can you pick a side to believe without any shred of doubt? [/ QUOTE ] I'm not saying there isn't any tiny shred of doubt, but it is extremely likely and obvious that the Brits are telling the truth and the Iranians aren't, given their respective stories (and the fact that Iran has taken or supported the taking of hostages many times in their last few decades). You don't need absolute 100% certainty to be pretty darned sure about something.
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#20
04-02-2007, 05:50 PM
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Re: How Long Will Iran Hold the British Sailors?
[ QUOTE ]
Casey-Were you recently promoted to GySgt.? If so, congrats on the promotion [/ QUOTE ] Yes, about a month ago. I just never got around to changing my avavtar.
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