NL25 KK on Ace and FD flop

MaltbyStu · #1 10-21-2007, 10:32 PM

Villain is 65/25 over 100. He rarely folds to c-bets not that I think this matters here.

Do you like this play? What do you do on the river having come this far?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($46.80)
MP ($34.20)
Button ($42.75)
SB ($28.60)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.5, UTG calls $1.25, Button folds.

Flop: ($3.35) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: ($3.35) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Hero calls $1.

River: ($5.35) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Micro Donk · #2 10-21-2007, 10:33 PM

given he rarely folds to c-bets, i may bet the flop since it seems his calling range isnt always an ace

trontron · #3 10-21-2007, 10:48 PM

what's his AF?

i think flop is fine, as long as he is passive.

i c/c a small bet on river and probably fold to a bet bigger than 2/3 pot. don't see value in a bet.

MaltbyStu · #4 10-21-2007, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
given he rarely folds to c-bets, i may bet the flop since it seems his calling range isnt always an ace

[/ QUOTE ]

C-betting this flop v this opponent seems wrong. I'm almost guaranteed a call thus bloating the pot OOP with an underpair to the board. Against someone that folds to most c-bets I can see it makes sense but not here?
We also can not face calling a raise making it seem less an obvious c-bet opportunity.

Micro Donk · #5 10-21-2007, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
C-betting this flop v this opponent seems wrong. I'm almost guaranteed a call

[/ QUOTE ]

and this is a problem how?

with your read, any pp, any FD, 8, maybe even a 3 is calling your c-bet...

youre OOP and it seems like a real crap spot when u check and he leads flop

Profish2285 · #6 10-21-2007, 11:03 PM

Yea, maybe I am missing something here, but vs someone who calls c-bets liberally, I am definitely c-betting here. Not only is it a c-bet, but against this guy its a value bet. If he calls, I probably c/c turn and if that is checked through, then I bet river for value again. As played, this is a must call.

MaltbyStu · #7 10-21-2007, 11:38 PM

I'll be honest, I have great difficulty playing PPs post flop, so I need to press this a little further.

We are obviously WA/WB in this hand but we have a hand that has SD potential against this villain. We are being called no matter what he has here and thus bloating the pot.

Why does it not make sense to attempt to limit the pot on the flop and then bet out on a non heart turn? Would this not be more of a value bet since we may be tempting him to call down lighter?

Profish2285 · #8 10-21-2007, 11:45 PM

Yes, you are tempting a normal player to call down lighter by checking the flop usually. But you said he almost never folds to c-bets, so with that being true, a bet here is almost mandatory for me as he will pay you off with worse. The main reason people check a flop like this with KK is to get value from worse later on, but if the villain is willing to do this for you on the flop then let him.

SoCalQuest · #9 10-22-2007, 12:29 AM

Check flop. Check call down. You're inducing bluffs and keeping the pot small.

Profish2285 · #10 10-22-2007, 12:32 AM

Checking the flop here is standard against a standard player, not against someone who loves to call c-bets with a very wide range. Why keep the pot small if he will pay you off despite his modest holding? You keep the pot small from someone who will more than likely only call with a draw or the A. Someone who will call with any pair or randomness is worth betting into. Oh and one more thing, everyone who is saying to check this flop, then I hope once in a while you guys are checking an A also here.